Chess Scotland Noticeboard

Alex McFarlane · King Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 413

Partial sponsorship is possible. It is difficult though for an event like the Scottish. At a weekend congress it is easier to sell individual events and any money is a bonus. In terms of reporting results there is not too much difference between events. At the Scottish the reporting of the main event is considerably more than for the other events. With an event like the Scottish you must be careful that the sponsorship actually covers the costs that it will incur. For example, if I were given money to be used only on offering incentives to titled players this could mean I would need a more expensive venue or we would need a 'press officer', etc. A certain event in England has attracted 'partial' sponsorship. This means that there is a much stronger entry for the event but a much higher probability that the event will run at a bigger loss than initially predicted because of the extras required to please a sponsor (or future sponsors - so you can't just say 'you get what you pay for' as future sponsors will look at the return).

It is difficult to 'sell' sponsorship of the Senior Championship when an unsponsored Open or Championship will attract all the publicity.

Things like sponsoring a digital clock or sensory board is a better idea for smallish amounts. This can free up some money from other sources. The equipment is then available for events throughout Scotland.

I am trying hard not to sound too negative here. Stuart's idea of weekend qualifiers would need quite a bit of thought to work in practice. Running a series of weekend events to find qualifiers may introduce even greater costs. The number of qualifiers would also need to be decided, as would the method of tie break. If you are to have multiple qualifiers then a Swiss style qualifier is not good at producing the right 'minor' places.

6 qualifying congresses, willing to donate £300 each could produce a 6 player all play all weekend championship.

AMcHarg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:52 pm Post subject:

Jim Stevenson · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject:

Why not get in quick and ask 'macb', formerly proud sponsors of HMFC?

They have £5k burning a hole in their pocket today, and are looking for something wholesome to sponsor. Too radical? Idea

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Andrew,

Alex McFarlane · King Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 413

I know I mentioned juniors but I would not want to see this topic being sidetracked.

In some respects both Andrew and Angus are correct. To a parent the amount of money given is insignificant in the overall costs but from an accountants point of few a fairly significant part of the funds raised by CS goes to juniors. Your view depends on which side of the fence you are on.

In fairness to many of Scotland's titled players, they were brought up in an age where chess was still in the post Fischer boom and it did look like you could make a semi reasonable living as a GM with an IM having a good source of 'pocket money'. It may be quite frustrating to have concentrated on chess as a youngster to the exclusion of something else which may now be producing a better revenue stream.

I remember having lively discussions in the 1980s and 90s about which sponsorship should be rejected. Tobacco was agreed for all events and Alcohol companies should not be allowed to sponsor events with a large junior participation. Can you imaging discussing which sponsors to reject nowadays? Chance would be a fine thing.

MacB as sponsor of the Scottish Jim. Are you really voting for a watered down event?

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

I do agree that Chess Scotland's volunteer organisers are doing a fantastic job and that effort is worthy of recognition but!

If the organisers of Chess in Scotland were to seek to organise Chess in such a way that their efforts are recognised above the achievements of the top players then just what is the point?

We may as well all do a management course?

Perhaps it's a tendancy towards this thinking which is making the top players lose the desire and the will?

Alex McFarlane · King Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 413

AMcHarg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:29 pm Post subject:

Angus,

Then I'm afraid I fell for the myth. Perhaps I stated it in a way which gives a false impression, but that's probably because I was ill-informed. I was under the impression that events such as the Euro Youth were funded by Chess Scotland, if not entirely then at least substantially?

Most of my comments were questions though, because I actually don't know why the top players don't play. I wish they did play more, and only they can really collectively answer the questions.

I didn't say that young players were over-rating their own importance, I said 'strong players', and arguably any GM (or titled player) who thinks that they should be paid £1000 for simply turning up is over-rating their own importance. I also think that people who take on this view, are the "elite" few that I was referring to and it's these people who do not seem to care much about giving something back. Is committing to one or two Scottish events per year or donating a few hours per season to training really much to ask? Obviously we can't make them, but my main point is why don't they want to?

I know that the vast majority of funds for the younger players to play in events come straight from their parents. This is probably never going to change, as much as we might like it to, and it's a real shame if that's the reason for people dropping out.

I understand that the highest rewards are reserved for the best players, but we don't need additional financial incentives for our youngsters to feel inspired to become strong players. For me the opportunity to get a title, become Scottish Champion and represent my country in an Olympiad would be an absolute honour; and if that isn't a big enough incentive to become a stronger player then I don't know what is. The present system of paying the top players to appear is unsustainable.

Investment should be about providing an opportunity for players to achieve their potential, but at the moment that potential seems to drive players away from the game the stronger they get, and the investment seems to have been wasted. Perhaps it would be a better idea to get players to commit to giving something back to the Chess community before the Chess community gives something to them?

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Edinburgh

Andrew, if the average player doesn't get enjoyment/satisfaction from having the best of Scotland's chess players playing in the Scottish Championship, then there is nothing to be done.

It is true that many above average players are not playing a lot, and that is probably down to the fact that there is no real prospect of a career at the end of it. It is easier and more practical to go to uni for a few years with better prospects of work (allegedly) once it is finished. But shouldn't the opportunity be there for them?

And yes, the better you get at something the less 'fun' it becomes. If you put say 8 hours a day, (or at least 10000 hours as has been reported) into something then you are looking for more than just enjoyment.

Finally, if you can tell me which of Scotland's players obtained titles as a result of funding from CS then I would be amazed.

For the record, it is obviously not sustainable to invite players when there is no sponsorship. I am trying to make the point that we should be looking for a solution that involves finding sponsorship somehow, as opposed to just accepting the situation.

JimWebster · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:16 pm Post subject:

AMcHarg · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:27 pm Post subject:

An added incentive to a sponsor could be a small advert on the homepage of the website starting a week before the event and ending a week after the event.

I think we need to come up with ten strong bullet points that are good reasons to sponsor a Chess event. If we can't come up with that then that will probably go some of the way to explaining why most companies won't sponsor an event. In reality, most companies can get better exposure via different things, because Chess typically targets a very small minority of people, who all like similar things. That said: if we don't ask then we will almost certainly never get.

Perhaps a sponsorship initiative needs to be in place for anyone to pick up and use to acquire sponsorship, without everyone who wants to get sponsorship for their events having to go about it all in their own way from scratch each time.

So what are the benefits for a company?

Which companies are most likely to sponsor Chess events?

and...

How should we go about asking them?

Daniel Rocks · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:28 pm Post subject:

The youngest titled player living and active in Scotland is Alan Tate whose year of birth is 1979 (Yes I know E.Dearing is a year younger but let's not be pedantic). Nobody below the age of 30 having a title automatically refutes the claim that we are somehow breeding elite players.

I think the notion that we are somehow obliged to provide opportunities for youngsters to go and achieve titles is misconstrued. Chess in Scotland is very much a minority pastime, we do not have the funds or people to organise large scale events or lots of FIDE-tournaments and we tend to be reliant on the small minority who give up lots of their time to provide the few events we have. An International Open is in fact punching above our weight. All of the active chess players in Scotland would hardly amount to a village's worth of population.

Chess is a hobby. If you want to become really good at it then good on you, pay for it yourself. No-one else should be obliged to fund it. The same applies to other activities such as Karate, Football etc. There is no divine right for a child to have lots of money to go abroad to play chess tournaments. If the child can't afford it then that is tough luck and the way of the world. There are more important things for money to be spent on eg Education, Food.

A child not having the opportunity to go to Croatia to play a board game due to their parent(s) not having the money is hardly tragic. Considering the fortunes of those children in Africa and other parts of the world, we should be thankful we even have the opportunity to sit at home with a board and play chess. I guess we tend to be too caught up in our own self-interests to miss the bigger picture.

Has the concept of a knock-out tournament for the Scottish Championship ever been considered? For instance, where people enter and the top say 16 rated players who enter participate in a series of matches over the year. Matches could be played best of 2/4 and with the final having more boards. This would be more convenient for people time wise and would only amount to half the players only having to play one weekend. I guess the issue here is how to fund it, but if the entry fees were pitched at something reasonable like £30 and there was a small Chess Scotland subsidy of £100-200 then I'm sure it could create a reasonable prize for the winner/runner up without breaking the bank. I personally feel such an event would be more exciting and would create more interest. If the top players wouldn't play, I'm sure the numbers could be found from the 1900/2000+ and the event would still be interesting.
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Daniel Rocks

admin · Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386

WFM Amy Officer and WFM Rhian Hughes will be agast to learn that they are at least 30 years old Very Happy

Daniel Rocks · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:02 pm Post subject:

Andy, I knew someone would come in with that. Sad

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Daniel,

I agree that all things are relative.

If the Chess Community doesn't believe our juniors are worthy of funding then what chance to pursuade others?

A big part of going to Chess Congresses for me is to see the top players playing.

I remember playing a tournament about 6 years ago in Ayr and being excited to tell my children there was a grandmaster playing in the room accross from where they were playing. Just at that Colin McNab appeared at the doorway and I whispered to them. 'That's him' They too were excited to see a GM.

It is simple though if the view is it's tough luck if you don't have the money to play for your country even though you've got the talent.

I can live with that also.

Just I don't think it says much for the nation to put so little behind their youngsters.

I guess you have to be an 800 year old 'Chess piece' to be worthy of funding? Smile

Anyway! Other things to do and good luck to all with The Scottish Championships.