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robin moore
King
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 164
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 Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| errm...Angus, perhaps economics wasn't your strongest subject. Check out the totally ludicrous accomodation prices for this tournament! |
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Angus McDonald
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:03 am Post subject: |
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Robin,
Yes, I noticed the prices.
I don't think you have to stay in this accomodation which is different from say the european youth or world youth where you do have to use the hotels selected by the organisers. That includes parents paying extra for their accomodation also. Additional players are going to these events and paying these kinds of accomodation prices already! So this kind of tournament 'might' be a better option? •Alternative accommodation is available in Gibraltar at the Rock Hotel, Elliot Hotel, Bristol Hotel and the Cannon Hotel and also at the Emile Hostel (all hotels can be found on the internet - see this page for details)
I'm only sharing some ideas. Personally I think the option to play the British age group championships in the Summer with possible official selections would be a better one. Sheffield in 2011 will be I think be a fantastic event with the opportunity to see Grand Masters play etc.
Angus |
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Angus McDonald
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: |
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More on economics!
The World Youth is listed by FIDE for Rio De Janeiro next year.
Flight costs are likely to be around £600 return with accomodation costs similar. 1st choices usually get accomodation paid but admin and entry fee can be up to another £200 a person. Any additional player travellling with a parent (it's a long way to Brazil) would be looking at possibly £2,500 to play the tournament.
The Gibraltar option above for say under 16 players is potential £200/head for entry and accomodation with possibly another £100 to £200 for travel. The Emile hostel in Gibraltar is down at £17 per person a night.http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/gib2011/hotels.html
It's certainly an option I will look at for Ian next year as it's in the School Holidays during what will be a very important School Year.
There is ofcourse the EEC tournament for under 14s and under 12s also during the School holidays next year which may also be an option for those who can't make the European Youth team because the World Youth in Brazil does look too expensive an option.
So plans for next year and what can and can not be achieved will no doubt be put in place and hopefully I'm putting out some ideas to help the process.
Angus |
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robin moore
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Angus, fair enough. I may be of some help to you as I know someone who is almost certainly playing in the big Gibraltar tourney in the early part of the year and is also staying at a hostel to cut costs down. There are good European alternatives though which Phil is aware of (I have just returned from one) but the purse strings and timing of these alternatives I am sure will be getting watched very carefully.
Robin. |
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robin moore
King
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 164
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| An idea for anyone considering playing in Europe is to look up where ryanair and easyjet fly to from your local airport then start looking for possible tourneys which match up reasonably with these destinations. If you still can't find a possible the irish company fly virtually everywhere from their Stansted hub but it means an extra two flights incurring cost and more time. However it can still work out much cheaper than national carrier scheduled flights. |
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Phil Thomas
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Joined: 26 Mar 2007
Posts: 758
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| Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Angus McDonald wrote: | That's good Phil.
Perhaps we can have the discussion in public also as there are quite simple points and issues which should be in the open imho.
i.e. I think we'll look back in time and think we were all far too accomodating regards taking a coach load of children down to Liverpool every winter to play only 3 games with nobody ever offering or suggesting a reciprocal arrangement where they do the travelling to play us in Scotland.
I agree that playing new opposition and strong opposition is good for our aspiring juniors but it appears to me that Scotland is doing a whole lot of the giving in this respect.
I don't think for one minute adult teams would put up with such an arrangement?
It is an inherited situation and any tournament is better than no tournament but perhaps it's time to put new options in place?
Also, 4 years ago when Ian first played the Liverpool tournament Jacob Aagard and Stephen Burns Mannion were doing the coaching. This was a
big attraction to attend and Ian and the under 12 players had all 3 of there games at under 12 gone over by an IM! Are there any plans to return to such standards?
Here's an interesting new tournament which has been announced for next year.
http://www.gibraltarchesscongress.com/gib2011/juniorinternational.html
Angus |
Surprising that so few have joined this notice board debate. Not sure what to read into that .......perhaps I should accuse some random poster of going round the countryside stirring up apathy.
From a pragmatic point of view its much easier to take a coachload to Liverpool than it would be to host a tournament of the same size. Quite possibly cheaper too. Liverpool represents a neutral venue where Wales (mainly South Wales players I believe) and English Midlands can meet up with Scotland at a central venue.
Size of IJD budget for 2011 to 2012 won't be known for some time. Depends upon retention or otherwise of CS's central government grant. Then applications from other directors then upon the decision taken on on how to share out the funds available. Whatever budget that sequential process reaches I feel that budget should prioritise events where juniors players represent Scotland above individual entries into foreign tournaments.
For a short tournament such as Liverpool the strength of the players representing Scotland is primarily decided by the strength of players boarding the bus on Friday. This year the main coaching sessions were Saturday Morning for 2-3 hours followed by a selection of U16 games demonsrtated by the U16 team to the U14 , U12 teams shortly before the doubles tournament on Saturday evening.
For the slower format Glorney tournament earlier this year own main coach was GM Matthew Turner.
For the secondary age residential training weekend in September the strongest coach was GM Stuart Conquest.
While for the World Youth we took Alan Tate - a few weeks before his first GM norm result.
Not paying a coach to attend Liverpool was a unilateral policy decision by me.
Angus has already agreed to coordinate Scotland's participation at Mureck in Austria - the EU youth championships .
Last year was the first time that Scotland was represented at this event.
Like World and Euro youth one player per section per country gets free accommodation in a holiday resort.
World Youth in Brasil creates higher costs than most years.
More cost effective would be Euro Youth in Bulgaria. Not the same appeal as Rio I know.
Liverpool Quadrangular will be held on Dec 10th and 11th 2011. Scotland's invitation has already been accepted. |
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Mike Scott
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Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 676
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:44 am Post subject: |
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I would agree with Phil's comments regarding Liverpool being a good venue and not rotating it between the home venues of the teams taking part and would add that while travelling is a pain - and especially those from the north - it does make the event stand out a bit and gets the players together as a squad for an extended period.
By having it at the same venue, organised by the same team should make it much easier to make changes as and when required to improve it.
Because of the distance travelled I would like more games played and/or a longer time control used (though I don't know what it exactly was - just basing that on 2nd hand reports). |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1386
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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| 30 in 60 + 15. Glasgow and Lanarkshire league time controls |
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Alan Tate
King
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike Scott wrote: | | Because of the distance travelled I would like more games played and/or a longer time control used (though I don't know what it exactly was - just basing that on 2nd hand reports). |
Indeed, and getting all the opposition players to turn up would also help. |
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Mike Scott
King
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 676
Location: Edinburgh
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Andy,
Must say that my gut reaction is that for an international match I would hope the time controls, at least for the U16 would be at least the same as used for two rounds a day congress: perhaps having a more serious time control might help attract some of the more senior junours from down south to play.
I note that the time control played is that used in the leagues you mentioned but I assume it has been used in those cases because of time limitations? |
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Angus McDonald
King
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would agree with Phil's comments regarding Liverpool being a good venue and not rotating it between the home venues of the teams taking part |
Mike,
I honestly think we are kidding ourselves on a bit here. It took me about 2 minutes of reflection to realise that the other participants wouldn't rotate it, They can barely raise teams when the event is within a couple of hours drive. If I have said it should be rotated (can't remember if I have) then it was rhetorical.
Chess ofcourse is brilliant. The buzz when junior chess players play is also brilliant and as I said previously any event is better than no event but taking time to reflect and think about what best serves the junior chess players of Scotland and what is best use of resources is a sensible course of action in my opinion. |
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Pat McGovern
Bishop
Joined: 10 Jan 2011
Posts: 24
Location: saltcoats
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| Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| sorry for coming in at the tail end but i see the big issue is money, has anyone sought a sponsor? |
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