Chess Scotland Noticeboard

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

I remain confused as what is happening with regards the primary team event and I know from comments from other club organisers that I am not alone.

No where on the CS website is there an explanation of what in my book is a very significant change in policy - okay there is information in the minutes of two meetings, plus some comments on the notice board - but as far as any casual visitor to the CS website is concerned there appears to be no national event. This lack of information is surely an unnecessary barrier for new clubs wishing to take part in a CS sanctioned event.

This concerns me primarily because there are clearly differences between how the events are run and for example how teams were entered - in previous years the Lothian entries were handled by the committee organising the league days that acted as a qualifier. I don't know, and other organisers are unsure, whether this will occur again or whether the schools must enter individually and will need to attend an SJC organised qualifier event etc I know that Andy did say that our league day did count as a qualifier but a recent email seemed to imply perhaps not.

This is not a critique of the decision itself, rather the lack of information.

Please note Donald that I believe the information I am requesting should be in the public domain, not hidden in a private emails, and its for that reason I am posting here.

I am NOT wanting a reply here to this posting, I am not looking to debate the decisions already taken. I just want to know what the plan is and how the changes will effect the CS teams, so that we can take the necessary decisions about practical issues.

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Writing as the Chair of SJC.

As should be clear from my posting on November 13th and the recently published minutes of the CS management board SJC are running the Primary team event this year. Logically any enquiries should be directed to SJC.

November 13th is uncomfortably late to begin detailed planning but here are the SJC plans.

Finals of both the P5 and the P7 events to be 16 teams playing a 7 round swiss event. Both on the same day at a central venue.

The target for teams entering qualifying events this year, is 79. This in an increase from the 53 teams who played in the SJC version last year and the 26 teams in the CS event (26 teams who played graded games – actual number might have been higher)

At least 5 qualifying heats will be played. Those already scheduled are

(1) South Lanarkshire on Monday 8 December

(2) Kirkhill on Weds 7th January.

(3) North Lanarkshire (Carnbroe) in January

(4) Edinburgh at a weekend in Jan or February.

(5) Ayrshire at a date to be announced

Offers to help at these 5 events will be greatly appreciated.

We also have hopes of getting qualifying heats organised for
Oban/ Dumfries/Fife/Borders/Aberdeen

As for the Liverpool Quad teams this year I have published intentions before contacting people. I hope the readership don’t find this a problem.
Either Michael or I will be making contact shortly. For the record we should be able to supply a qualified or experienced arbiter for most if not all of the heats.

It was noted soon after the agm that some schools are used to qualifying events during school time and that some are used to qualifiers held at the weekend. In order to accommodate those who can only play at weekends it is the intention to allow schools to travel out of area to play in the Edinburgh heat. Extra qualifying places would result from the increased entry.

Any questions I’m easily contacted by e mail links on CS website under Arbiter/Coach/CS Officers lists or I will be at Oban this weekend.

Phil Thomas
Chair of SJC

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Hi Phil,
Thanks for the detailed information, but surely with your SJC hat on are you not concerned with the lack of promotion of the SJC organised national champs. on the CS web site? (joke but not really).

May I suggest that your post should appear on the CS school page?

I have directed my questions at CS because I believe that there is some responcibility there to communicate decision that effect its membership to its members.

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Mike,
information should be appearing on the CS web site - not quite sure where and when (delegated to Andy Howie who suggested this , he will send on as required).

If number of heats does expand from 5 to 10 then number of finalists will also expand. One of several reasons for not naming the venue yet.

Its also worth pointing out at this stage that a nationwide series of qualifying heats should involve a wide range of local junior organisers. We don't have that many and we need them all.

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Phil, I appreiciate you have a lot of virtual work. However, in previous years, it is my understanding (can someone confirm please?) that Lothians held a central team event to act as a qualifier and this was again organised this year. This event was ran, and now will have to be ran again? Surely this is a consequence of poor management and communication to the membership and stakeholders in CS?

I am sure everyone has the same goal. To get as many kids playing chess in the best environments possible and to help them develop. This can become a little bit gruelling at times when there is so much misunderstanding.

So perhaps, if you can only respond in your "SJC cap", a "CS cap" should be donned by the relevant persons to let the CS membership and stakeholders understand the CS plans for this event; why this decsision was made, why it was thought to be the correct decision, what will be changed, what the consequences of the changes will be etc.(is CS still entitled to government funding if they don't actually run any junior events?)

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Lynsey,

Its not virtual work its real work.

SJC unlike CS feel that teams who have not paid an entry fee are not in the competition. I suggest you use your obvious influence in the Edinburgh area to help sort out this historical anomaly.

If entry fees from Lothians area increase the profit made in the Primary team competition this year this would not be a bad thing. The extra money will be pumped into junior events - events for which I like the rest of SJC take no fee or expenses.

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Ok, I can understand that idea, I am in support for if something does not have a value, it won't be valued. However, Mike, previous to the Lothians event asked what the organisation for the national team event was, if the event could be a qualifier etc?

It seems a clear enough response was not receieved because if a reply had been received stating for example a fee was necessary, the qualifying criteria, the organisation, and the general plans in advance, I am confident an agreement could have been reached. Isn't that logical?

Your second point may open a can of worms in terms of questions, so, for a simpleton like me can you please explain this very clearly so there is no misunderstanding. If i can quote you; "if the entry fees... expenses" - If profits are made, it is fantastic and sensible they are re-invested into junior chess in Scotland, however will the monies be deposited in CS or SJC funds and accessible to which organisation if it is a CS event being ran by SJC?

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Posted on Another thread on November 14th

Writing as the chair of SJC.

SJC have been asked by CS to run the only Primary team event for season 2008-09.
It took some time for SJC to discuss the offer from Chess Scotland.

SJC have decided to formally accept the offer from CS.
No fee will be paid to SJC for running a primary team tournament.
If the event makes a loss SJC will underwrite the whole of that loss which for the CS event in season 2007-08 was in the region of £200.
This is a one year agreement only. That is to say I personally consider it wrong to reach a decision which binds the CS directors elected at the 2009 agm whoever they might be.

After the 2009 final CS will take ownership again of a revised and expanded event. An event that should run at a profit in season 2009-10.

It is the SJC target to have a qualified arbiter present and in charge at all qualifying heats.

Phil Thomas
Chair of SJC

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Thanks Phil,

So am I correct in thinking that SJC run it this year, with the hope of getting all of those who competed in both SJC and CS qualifiers last year together and making it one, mega event. Then it will be transferred back to CS and continue to be the only team event next saeson, and that may be continued?

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

General protocol is of course that no Director or Group of directors can take decisions that bind the set of directors elected at the next agm.

Any decision taken at the next agm will no doubt take into account which individuals and organisations are capable of running the event and whether or not they wish to tender.

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Phil,
I appreciated your detailed reply previously to my question regarding qulaifiers etc.

(rest of repetative rant removed)

No, war is not what I have been asking for, just some consideration of those who have been affected by the decision and whose help you may need. All I need(ed) was information.