Chess Scotland Noticeboard

AMcHarg · Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:14 pm Post subject:

Old people are rubbish at Chess. Laughing

SteveHilton · King Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 443 Location: Greenock

you cheeky young whippersnapper!!! Laughing

Alan Jelfs · Queen Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 81

In 1991, I turned 30 and got my first 1700+ grading.
In 1996, I turned 35 and got my first 1800+ grading.
In 2001, I turned 40 and got my first 1900+ grading.

... and that's about as good is it got ... Sad

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Stuart Blyth · King Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 209

Yes, I think it flies in the face of evidence and common sense to pretend that, generally speaking, we are likely to improve at chess as we get older. Or perhaps, more precisely, it is a fact that the older you get, the greater the limitations this will place on how much you can improve.

Maybe two things are at work here. The effects of age itself and the fact that, once you reach a certain point (maybe 1900 or 2000 at chess), each improvement step will require increasingly more effort.

Paul Denham · Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject:

Alan Jelfs post is very interesting.

I played chess at school where we had a teacher who supported casual chess during lunch times but where the support wasn't on the level of Stephen Taylor's Greenwood Academy.

It wasn't till I was 29 that I decided to join a chess club.
I know several players locally who took up chess in their 40's and their 50's.

I wonder what the average club/congress player's background is in terms of when they actively started playing chess.

Perhaps a survey by CS of when a player started actively playing chess in club and/or congress scene would be revealing and may indicate where we should be, in part, targeting new players from Question

Stuart, in terms of improving... there was an article by Andy Soltis a number of years ago which reckons an player plateaus after around 8 seasons of playing. Think the further an adult player gets towards his/her plateau the harder/longer they have to work to improve.
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It is said that life is too short for chess but that is the fault of life, not chess

Stuart Blyth · King Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 209

I think I've heard of this idea that you 'plateau' after a certain number of years. I don't know how scientific it is, but it does kind of 'sound' right to me.

What are the implications of this, though? Does it mean you'd more or less get to the same point irrespective of how much 'work' you put in to improve your chess. Does it mean that the point at which you 'plateau', will be a great deal higher if you put in a lot of 'work' Or does it mean that putting in a lot of 'work' will change things a bit, but maybe not as much as we'd like to think? I probably think the latter.

I suspect a lot of us do the wrong kind of 'work' to improve our chess. Below 2000, I think it's really all tactics and concentration. Sticking to the same openings, which you like and grow to understand might also help a bit with timekeeping (as, I guess, do tactics and concentration, when it comes down to it). I think most players at 1500-1800 are as aware as a 2000 player when they've made a bad positional move; I think the problems more in not concentrating properly beforehand and making moves that, were one to be observing a match, say, we would probably reject. I've lost count of the number of times I've made a poor positional move and, no sooner pressed my clock, thought, "jings, why the heck did I do that, it's awful!" (or something similar Wink

) - sometimes it can be such a clanger and so obvious, it almost feels like you've missed a tactic.

Maybe there's a kind of tension in that we like to try to follow the games and plans of great players but often discover that our games are determined by some gross 'ugly' tactical mistake.

Paul Denham · Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:21 pm Post subject:

Stuart

I have sent you a private mail as my post was getting too long but what you said in your earlier post about "each improvement step will require increasingly more effort." is something that a guy called Rolf Wetzel identified when he bucked the trend and got up off his plateau.

Thinking back he was the one who discussed the Soltis Curve and I think many people plateau due to adult life getting in the way of chess, long before the aging process kicks in.

PD
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It is said that life is too short for chess but that is the fault of life, not chess

Stuart Blyth · King Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 209

Paul - ok, look forward to reading it. Have you sent it already? Nothing has appeared.

and yes, the other thing about getting older is that there are usually a lot of other things that take up time/brain power/interest, so that's gotta be a factor.

sigrun · King Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 307 Location: Europa

So, what's all this depressing talk about statistics doing? Should the powers to be ignore us oldies? If nothing else we're fodder for the younger generation & sometimes it can even learn things from us.
Is all the 'work' that we oldies do in vain? I personally like studying chess as much as playing it. It's got intrinsic properties & I don't even need to think about the future Laughing

I'd like to remind you again about the popularity of golf: Lots of prizes. So if the organizers throw in senior & women's prizes it would give me a better chance Cool

Apart from that I suggest losening up a bit
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Alan Jelfs · Queen Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 81

To depress us 'oldies' even more, it should be pointed out that the oldest of the current top 100 FIDE-rated players is our 'old' favourite GM, Nigel Short, born 1965.
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