Chess Scotland Noticeboard A place for chess nuts to boast over an open forum    FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Giving notice of the CS AGM...          Chess Scotland Noticeboard Forum Index -> General Chess Chat View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:41 pm    Post subject: Giving notice of the CS AGM... I have decided to open a new topic for this as I don't wish to sidetrack the interesting debate on the other topic. Quote: As for the communication, are you wanting the constitution changed for that as well "13.4 The Executive Director shall give each member six weeks notice of the place, date and hour of the Annual General Meeting, but such meeting will not be invalidated should any member not receive advice of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site. How can this be interpreted as ruling out emailing or lettering the membership about the AGM. It reads it is sufficient to publish it on the web but it does not restrict it to the web only. Or does it? If it does, I believe the constitution should be changed at the AGM to allow for emailing and lettering of the CS membership and we might get a somewhat more representative attendance. If it does not exclude emailing/lettering then why has CS not emailed all members with notice of the AGM? This doesn't make sense to me. Its almost like we are trying to shoot ourselves in the foot. Lets get more people attending, I always get emailed about the POY and I couldn't give a stuff about it and yet nothing for the AGM. Something aint right there! _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top admin Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: I personally don't have a problem with it. However if someone joins within the 6 week period, what happens then? Equally, we are all grown up. We know where to look for information. The AGM and council notices have been displayed on the website for as long as I have been a member. I don't ever recall getting either an e-mail or a letter in the post inviting me to the AGM. Do we really need to start spoon feeding everyone information? Where does it stop? Should we mail out the agenda and reports? How about everytime there is a new news item, should we be notifying everyone it is there? What about when someones grade changes.... Ok, that is maybe going too far but you can see what I mean. The focal point for Scottish Chess is the Chess Scotland Website. That is why the constitution states that is it sufficient to use the Website. On the other hand, there is an AGM coming up and if you feel strongly about it, you could make a proposal that changes this. That is the nature of the beast. We are answerable to the membership and if that is the way they want it then so be it Back to top David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:12 pm    Post subject: admin wrote: Ok, that is maybe going too far but you can see what I mean. The focal point for Scottish Chess is the Chess Scotland Website. That is why the constitution states that is it sufficient to use the Website. On the other hand, there is an AGM coming up and if you feel strongly about it, you could make a proposal that changes this. That is the nature of the beast. We are answerable to the membership and if that is the way they want it then so be it Sorry Andy, I cannot agree with you. We must be one of the few bodies in the world that opts to notify members of an AGM by placing a news article on their website. Its that simple. If you can give me other examples where an organisation posts it on the website go for it but you'll struggle. My gut feel is that it is just protectionism. So many of the office bearers get tetchy on this noticeboard at being questioned god only knows how they would react to being challenged in public. Considering the number of times I have heard office bearers bleat on about no one attending the AGM and no one taking an interest. It is in fact CS's failure to communicate that causes it. Also to hold the notion that publicising an AGM on the website that how many of our members actually use? is a suitable means of communication is woefully mistaken. Just because it is the way it has always been done doesn't make it right. Could someone bring up the attendances at AGMs since we have started using the website to declare the AGM as I suspect the numbers in attendance will have reduced. I really dont see what there is to lose by emailing all members. Where is the down side? Surely it is worth a try as a pilot to try and boost turnout? Instead I get needless emails about POY which I couldn't give two hoots about. The AGM is much more important and should be treated as such. Finally, I have stated on several topics thus far that I cannot attend the AGM due to other commitments. Therefore how I would present a motion to change the constitution I don't know. _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top admin Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Not being at the AGM does not debar you from proposing a motion. If you feel that strongly about it. Propose it. You may be surprised by the number of people who agree with you. Best attended AGM in recent times was the one a couple of years ago at the Busby Hotel. Yep, notified by webpage You are talking about a practice that has gone on since before I got involved. That does not make it right, however. Protectionism? You have to be having a laugh there. What is there to protect?? Look at the dwinding numbers of Arbiters, Organisers, People coming forward to help? Protectionism??? When was the last time we had a full compliment of CS Directors? I am puzzled by your comment on "So many of the office bearers get tetchy on this noticeboard at being questioned god only knows how they would react to being challenged in public.". I think we all welcome debate and openness. There are many Directors, Office Bearers and Ex-Directors all posting their opinions on matters. Please correct me if I am wrong Finally, no one is saying it is wrong to mail members about the AGM, you have still not answered my question on what and when. Should it be the notice, should it be the Agenda and reports, what exactly are you suggesting here. You have me thinking would it be a good idea to e-mail out all the reports to the members so they can see what their membership monies have been doing! Back to top David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:59 pm    Post subject: Thanks for replying... Andy thanks for taking the time to reply and you have made several valid points. I will work up some details of what I would like to see communicated via email for the future and come up with a proposal for consideration and then hopefully find some seconders to get it on the Agenda. Hopefully I will have a draft proposal on this thread tomorrow. Watch this space. _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:05 pm    Post subject: As promised... If a little later than I anticipated: Quote: Motion for Chess Scotland AGM 2011 1. That the following revisions are made to the Chess Scotland Constitution to ensure that communication with members is effective going forward. All additions are marked in red. 13 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING (AGM) 13.4 The Executive Director shall give each member six weeks notice of the place, date and hour of the Annual General Meeting, but such meeting will not be invalidated should any member not receive advice of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members in writing (including email). 13.7 The Executive Director shall publish all nominations for elections and proposals for consideration at least two weeks before the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members in writing (including email). 14 SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING (SGM) 14.6 The Executive Director shall give two weeks notice to members of the holding of a Special General Meeting, but such a meeting will not be invalidated should any member not receive advice of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members in writing (including email). The notice of the meeting shall include a statement of the purpose of the meeting and include details of the motion(s) to be voted on. I also gave consideration to emailing out the minutes of council, agm and board minutes but I do not believe this would have the desired effect and would lead to too many emails being sent. I think if anything the above revisions will at the very least raise awareness of the AGM's presence amongst the members of CS and in turn lead to better turnout. They will also give members the information straight to their inbox without searching the website for the reports or motions. Any feedback or builds are appreciated. More importantly, I require some seconders. Any takers? _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top admin Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:22 pm    Post subject: Just one minor point if I may. In the other thread you are advocating saving money. By physically writing to people as mentioned here, is this not going to increase costs through postage? Back to top AMcHarg King Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 623 Location: Livingston, Scotland Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: I agree in principle with David, but I'd be surprised if it had a significant effect on turnout at the AGM. That said; it doesn't take a lot to send a bulk email, and it's surely worth a debate at the AGM. Perhaps when the new membership letters with the new cards go out upon each renewal, there could be a mention there that the AGM will be held around the end of August, and to check the website or contact the membership secretary if they require clarification on the exact date? It would save costs. Okay, I'll second David's proposal, with the only alteration (if it's required) that a letter does not necessarily need to be physically sent, but instead if an email is available; it will be used; with a letter being the last resort. Back to top David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:34 pm    Post subject: Thanks for the feedback the reason I chose the term "in writing (including email)" is as this is the phrase that is used throughout the constitution and I wanted it to remain consistent. Furthermore, I wasn't sure if it was wise to only advocate email as it may disenfranchise members who do not have an email address. I am not averse to changing the wording so writing to members is only a resort if we have no email address on file. For example: Quote: and to contact all members by email (or in writing if no email address is available). What do you think? Also, the thought of postage had crossed my mind too - it is a freaking fortune. I like Andrew's idea pertaining to sending a note with the new membership cards and we could even consider including something in Scottish Chess too? Thanks for seconding it Andrew! _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top AMcHarg King Joined: 19 Nov 2008 Posts: 623 Location: Livingston, Scotland Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: The trouble with posting a message in Scottish Chess is that not all members actually receive it. As far as I know we have the vast majority of email addresses for members though, so postage to those for whom we don't have an email address would not be as considerable. We have to be reasonable about things, sending an additional letter to over 600 people would be a waste of time and money imo, and therefore mass emails seems to be the best solution. Back to top admin Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: I think this is a good idea. My concern has been removed about the additional cost. Onto the AGM it goes. Back to top David Deary Queen Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 98 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:49 pm    Post subject: Okay the motion now reads as follows: Quote: Motion for Chess Scotland AGM 2011 1. That the following revisions are made to the Chess Scotland Constitution to ensure that communication with members is effective going forward. All additions are marked in red. 13 ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING (AGM) 13.4 The Executive Director shall give each member six weeks notice of the place, date and hour of the Annual General Meeting, but such meeting will not be invalidated should any member not receive advice of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members by email (or in writing if no email address is available). 13.7 The Executive Director shall publish all nominations for elections and proposals for consideration at least two weeks before the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members by email (or in writing if no email address is available). 14 SPECIAL GENERAL MEETING (SGM) 14.6 The Executive Director shall give two weeks notice to members of the holding of a Special General Meeting, but such a meeting will not be invalidated should any member not receive advice of the meeting. It shall be deemed sufficient to publish these details on the Chess Scotland internet site and to contact all members by email (or in writing if no email address is available). The notice of the meeting shall include a statement of the purpose of the meeting and include details of the motion(s) to be voted on. Proposed by: David Deary Seconded by: Andrew McHarg Btw, am I allowed to propose this motion as I will not be in attendance? _________________ Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! Back to top admin Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:52 pm    Post subject: I don't see anything in the constitution that states you have to be there. As long as it is proposed and seconded. Would you mind putting it in a mail to me as well Cheers Back to top Andy McCulloch King Joined: 28 Mar 2007 Posts: 280 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:06 pm    Post subject: I seem to recall that previous motions have failed simply because the proposer was not present. Surely the solution to that would be that David got someone who would be present to be the proposer. Back to top Jacqui Thomas King Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 340 Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:11 pm    Post subject: Andy, not because they proposed & were not there it was because they couldnt answer questions about their proposal so you are probably right - just in case Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         Chess Scotland Noticeboard Forum Index -> General Chess Chat All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum Public Area----------------General Chess ChatJunior Chess ChatAnnouncementsMembership NewsInternational TournamentsTournament ChatThe Games ZoneAsk the GraderThe Arbiters JotterSwap ShopWhy don't you??? Members Only----------------Archive  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group. 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