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Mike Scott
King
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 676
Location: Edinburgh
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 Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 2:29 pm Post subject: xxxx Grade |
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Just noticed that some player's grades appear to have been censored and their new grade is listed only as xxxx. e.g. James Keegan
Why is this? |
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Andy McCulloch
King
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| As of Jan '09, adult non-members of CS can only have their start of season grade shown. See grading FAQs. |
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Andy McCulloch
King
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Posts: 280
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| Posted: Wed May 26, 2010 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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I suggested this idea to Dougie as a value added item for CS members, ie. something you get for your membership fee.
As well as your current grade you get an itemised list of all your games during the season.
Quite why you would want to know your opponents current grade is beyond me, it will not help your game in any way.
A club would only require 1 CS member to be aware of the current grade of every member. |
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DMB
King
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Andy McC had commented in late 2008 that why should non CS members be able to see their latest grade updated every week when they had not paid a membership fee. It seemed a reasonable point - so I discussed with programmer Gordon Rattray if we could do anything about it.
So in January 2009 we changed the display options so that non-member adults with over 10 results this season would have their latest grade blanked with xxxx. The idea was that if you have played over 10 games you are fairly active and are taking advantage of CS grading work - so why are you not contributing to CS by joining.
All players can still see their published grade ie the one at start of season by clicking the "published grade" column. The logic there was that everyone must have contributed something so should be entitled to see their published grade. Some users of the system are still not aware that every published grade can be viewed via the club lists.
Ian comments that he would like to view the itemised games records of non-members too. That would be the ideal but unfortunately the way the system is set up it is not possible at the moment.
The whole online grading area could be password protected to members only - but this would require a new player by player password generation. A pnum password protected area wouldn't work - since you just pretend to be someone else who is a member. There are some advantages in making accessibility to all as at the moment since it advertises to non members what they would get if they joined.
If there are any programmers who would like to offer their services at modest cost (free g-book maybe) and assist our current programmer then adapting the online system further may be possible. |
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DMB
King
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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I think it would be possible for all the members to be given unique passwords - you then have a file of eligible people who can access a password protected site. This would be updated every week as changes are made to the membership file. That way you solve the issue of non-members looking up the records of members. This would mean that online grading is not visible at all to non-members.
Is that better than current system?
Are there other options? |
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AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
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| Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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Why not just make it that you need to login to the system to see the details of all players and if not logged in it assumes you are a non-member and shows only the basic information. When players become members they can be added to the database automatically and have a password generated for login.
I'll happily help code this, I have experience with php and mysql and have created a variety of user-login and content management systems in the past.
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DMB
King
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Andy thx - will send more details by email.
So the idea would be that a non logged in user would see what they can currently view - except that hyperlinks on members no longer appear or if they do appear they are not functional.
For a logged in member they see hyperlinks on all players and can view itemised game by game listings for all players.
>>>When players become members they can be added to the database automatically and have a password generated for login.
The membership file changes every week with new members added and expired ones removed. This information is held by the grading access dbase which is uploaded via a java routine. The new "logged in" system would have to know when players are no longer members. |
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AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| DMB wrote: | | The membership file changes every week with new members added and expired ones removed. This information is held by the grading access dbase which is uploaded via a java routine. The new "logged in" system would have to know when players are no longer members. |
We can have a database field labelled 'is_member' and for each player 'yes/no', 'true/false' etc, this works well.
When you say that the membership info is uploaded every week with new members and expired ones removed; this could also be done automatically. We can make a webform that members fill out prior to paying for their membership that auto adds them to the database upon submission and then applies a date to a 'membership_expiration' field. Each day the system can check each member in the database and see if their membership has expired and if so it will change the 'is_member' field to 'false' etc. This way you are not removing anyone from the database you are simply restricting their access. This would be the best way imo because when they next try to login it could tell them that their membership expired on x-date and 'click here' to renew your membership etc. (and obviously deny login). With this method we can also have a system that sends auto-reminders to members to renew their membership 1-month/2-weeks in advance and emails to former-members to ask them to fill out a short survey on why they are no longer a member and would they consider renewing at some point if we changed some things?
Let me know what you think.
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JimWebster
Rook
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 53
Location: You are in a twisty maze of passageways, all alike...
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| Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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This discussion is all very well, but anyone can simply go to the Area Grader page and download the grading program and associated database to get all the up-to-date grading data. Admittedly without who played who, but all the latest grades are there.
The FAQ Area Grader page and it's info should really be limited to Area Graders only
for example
1 per member club,
congress organiser (1 per congress)
League organiser (1 per league)
and I think all these people should be registered with Chess Scotland |
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admin
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1386
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| Posted: Sat May 29, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | 1 per member club,
congress organiser (1 per congress)
League organiser (1 per league)
and I think all these people should be registered with Chess Scotland |
Doesn't quite work. From memory there are 4 people at my club who grade events. I know of some leagues who can have 3 or 4 people doing the grading (1 person per division).
I'm sure that the program records who is doing the grading and stores it as well
Idea is good. Maybe we can extend the idea above for area graders as well. |
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Gordon Rattray
Knight
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JimWebster wrote: | | This discussion is all very well, but anyone can simply go to the Area Grader page and download the grading program and associated database to get all the up-to-date grading data. |
I think the solution is to change the grading program such it doesn't rely on an associated database needing to be downloaded (which is a burden anyway). Then the database isn't made public to anyone; nobody ever needs a copy.
The updated app would access an online server for player info, etc, after authenticating itself appropriately.
The problem with this has been finding the time to turn ideas into reality. |
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Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Does everyone not contribute to the grading system when they pay conference fees and club fees? I don't know what other people think, but seeing XXXX does not create a great impression on me. |
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DMB
King
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Stuart Blyth wrote: | | Does everyone not contribute to the grading system when they pay conference fees and club fees? I don't know what other people think, but seeing XXXX does not create a great impression on me. |
How do you differentiate membership from non-membership if you dont have an enhanced level of services for people who have paid for membership.
What would your idea be instead? |
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Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Well, my post really asked a question (do people not contribute through the paying of various fees?) and expressed a personal feeling regarding the appearance of XXXX beside someone's name. Having thought about this a bit more, it seems even more daft. It's purely arbitrary - why not just ban them from seeing their grade at all? Why not make them wear an armband with XXXX at congresses - even better, tatoo it on their heids and we'll save money?
I'd imagine that seeing XXXX is just as annoying for members as non-members.
Anyway, members get the benefit of reduced entry fees to congresses do they not? How about making the rule that only people who DON'T recoup their membership fees through entry-fee savings get to see their grades?
If it's such an issue, then either simply make membership a requirement of playing graded games or ...................... put a levy of some kind on club and/or league and/or congress fees? Which takes us back to .................do(e) a deer....... |
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Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I'd have thought those dudes you paid all that money to a few years ago would have picked up on this great marketing opportunity.
However, to show my commitment to Scottish chess I'll provide it free of charge.
Surely the XXXX could attract sponsorship from a certain producer of Australian lager?
Scottish Chess members wouldn't give a XXXX for anyone who doesn't pay their membership fees - or something like that? |
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