Chess Scotland Noticeboard

andyburnett · Queen Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 102

Anyone else been reading the ChessBase article-www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=4686
-about the 'armageddon' finish to the US Women's championship?

I watched the finish to the final game when it was first posted and thought, 'what a mess, what a way to decide a national championship'. It was exciting, but a bit too random even for me!

Anyway, Krush has now written an open letter, the gist of which is that her opponent Zatonskih was guilty at best of sharp practice, at worst of cheating (though she doesn't use this word herself, it's definitely the way it comes across) and that she deserves to either share the title or have another play-off at normal controls to decide it.

The most interesting point for me (from a practical viewpoint) is that the arbiters who have responded to this don't seem to agree on the rules as they seem somewhat open to interpretation. (i.e. It may not be illegal to move your piece before your opponent has pressed their clock, although you have to wait for the clock to be pressed by your opponent before you can press your own?!).

From my own experience, when an opponent tries to move before I press my clock, i simply press the clock again and warn them that they have to wait until i have completed my move. If it happens a second time I stop the clock and call the arbiter. It has only happened once or twice to me, but it seems that I may have been incorrect beccause the rules are a bit vague?!
Anyone been in a similar situation? Anyone have any thoughts on what the correct way to deal with this is?

Gordon Rattray · Knight Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 10

johnmcbride · Bishop Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 20

It happened to me at the team allegro at Grangemouth two years ago. I had a winning position against a higher rated opponent, but we both had less than a minute on the clock. Then my opponent started making moves and pressing his clock in between me making a move and being able to press my clock. To ensure that I did not activate his clock he held his end down.

The result was that I became rattled, calling an arbiter when you have seconds left and panicked does not even enter your head. My few second advantage became a deficit, my better position fell apart and I lost on time. I was totally shell shocked by this and was not able to communicate my anger at this gamesmanship. I felt like I had just been mugged.

This was witnessed by other players, including the arbiter, who said that I would have had to have complained for him to intervene. Unfortunately for my team and I, normal rational thinking does not apply in these heated situations and he got away with it. However, I hope the experience will mean that next time I will be better prepared and call a halt right away.

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 190 Location: Edinburgh

I saw this article and fully sympathise with Irina Krush. To lose the US title in this manner must be utterly frustrating. The fact is though that in blitz and rapid games, there are so many grey areas in the rules that make them impossible to enforce.
I think the fault lies in the use of such a tiebreak for an important event, not in blitz itself - which is a somewhat random form of chess. At the very least an increment could have been used to avoid such an ugly end.
And yes, strangely, it is legal to reply to a move before the clock is pressed, and after watching the video in slow motion, it looks like the only rule break was where Irina knocked her rook off the table. \ :

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 163 Location: Dumbarton

This is why I voted for Sonnebern-Berger to split tie-breaks at Scottish Championships, much cleaner, and takes account of all previous games, no disputes involved

Jacob Aagaard · Rook Joined: 27 Mar 2007 Posts: 50 Location: Milngavie

It is so common that chess players do not know the rules well, and when they are used against them in a way they do not like, they complain about gamesmanship. Does this also come into account when people take my pieces without warning that they are threatened? Can I ask for a rematch?

Or is chess a sport where we have the responsibility to know the rules, especially if we play for national championships?

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 217 Location: Edinburgh

But just look at those so called sportsmen playing football - they appear not to know the offside rules.

johnmcbride · Bishop Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 20

So how does holding your clock down, so that your opponent cannot press theirs, constitute using the rules against your opponent?

It is clearly a breach of the rules, designed to unsettle the opponent, keep your time and get them to lose on time.

Trevor Davies · Rook Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 56

FIDE Article 6.8 (2) states:

A player must stop his clock with the same hand as that with which he made his move. It is forbidden for a player to keep his finger on the button or to `hover` over it.

Art 13.1 states:

The arbiter shall see that the Laws of Chess are strictly observed.

(We recently had a discussion on this noticeboard on whether an arbiter can intervene in Allegro (RapidPlay). There are circumstances where s/he must not - but this is not one of those cases. )

Simply put:
(a) your opponent was breaking the rules of chess,
(b) the arbiter, seeing this, had a duty to intervene immediately.

If the circumstances were exactly as you describe (which would amount to blatant cheating), I would be minded to immediately give you an extra two minutes and warn the player (assuming that s/he was an experienced player) that any repetition would lead to an immediate loss.