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robin moore
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Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 164
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 Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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robin moore wrote:
The election result was not a surprise in the least to me.
Wllmherk wrote..
| Quote: | It was a surprise to me. I would have thought even the most ardent nationalists could not have expected an election victory on this scale. Whilst not a supporter of the SNP, nor independence, I would have to acknowledge that Alex Salmond is a brilliant politician. His chances of victory looked very slim 6 months ago.
It's also worth bearing in mind that should Scotland vote for independence how this would change the politcal map in England. I'm sure I read somewhere Scotland provides around 25% of Labour MPs in Westminster. I don't believe red Ed could affort to lose so many footsoldiers. |
You are an undecided voter, you wish to vote but have a choice
Do you
1. Vote for a party that have signed a pledge to guarantee no student tuition fees, then as soon as they form a coalition with the leading party withdraw this commitment and support an independent increase of fees.
2. Vote for a party that used Scotland as a testing ground for controversial policies like the poll tax because their core vote was in the south of England.
3. Vote for a party that had taken the Scottish people for granted for decades fronted by a completely unimpressive leader and even less well known shadow front bench.
4.Vote for smaller political parties because you feel that they have a genuine moral or environmental message.
5. Vote for a party that have the best politicians and have your country's future at heart.
When Alex Salmond starting visiting constituencies that were considered unwinnable in the last few days of the election, the reason was clear. The SNP believed they could win them because of the opinions they were seeing on the doorstep and they duly did. The only one he visited that they failed on was the Labour leader's East lothian constituency (by 150-odd votes).
Last edited by robin moore on Fri May 20, 2011 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Alan Jelfs
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Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 19, 2011 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| robin moore wrote: | robin moore wrote:
1. Vote for a party that have signed a pledge to guarantee no student tuition fees, then as soon as they form a coalition with the leading party withdraw this commitment and support an independent increase of fees.
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I'm rather puzzled why you think the funding of higher education in England was such a big issue for Scottish voters.
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robin moore
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| Alan, The Lib-Dems reneged on a highly publicised signed pledge they had made as soon as they got their first faint sniff of power. Are you still puzzled as to why they have no mainland constituency MSP's, umpteen lost deposits and no Scottish leader? They are in danger of emulating the Conservatives feat of either having 0 or 1 MP's in Scotland for nearly the last 20 years. They have certainly assured that their formerly large student vote has all but disappeared on a national level. |
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Paul Denham
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Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Location: East Kilbride
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:46 am Post subject: |
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"Those days are past now and in the past they must remain.
But can we still rise up and be a nation again"...
See what I just did there with two words 
Suggest this meandering thread which has started to turn in on itself takes another wind away from bickering with each other and people consider the following;
1. If we were to be independent, what currency should we be aim for either immediately or to transition into.... and why? (BTW answers such as independence would be a bad thing precisely due to currency issue are as acceptable too)
Euro
£
$
Our own
answers on a long thread.....
PD
PS If we start bickering again I will lob in a question about the Army
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Paul Denham
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Location: East Kilbride
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:48 am Post subject: |
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PPS If thread gets really inward again you will be set the question;
"Will the weather improve under independence?"
I'm feeling a bit silly having taken today off for some golf in EK area ... still they say "rain clearing and sunshine and showers later".... ohhh to know in what ratio those sunshine and showers are gonna come.
PD
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HughBrechin
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Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 201
Location: The moral high ground.
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Statistically it's sunnier under Labour than it is under the Tories by a reasonable distance, apparently. |
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AMcHarg
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Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| HughBrechin wrote: | | Statistically it's sunnier under Labour than it is under the Tories by a reasonable distance, apparently. |
And the sky will fall down under the SNP if the last two Labour party campaigns in Scotland were to be believed. |
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David Deary
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Jelfs wrote: |
I'm rather puzzled why you think the funding of higher education in England was such a big issue for Scottish voters. |
Well, I don’t believe it is too much of a stretch. I realise education is a devolved issue as do most but a quick history lesson shows that what happens down south ends up happening in Scotland. Look at the introduction of tuition fees in Westminster under Labour and in Holyrood under Labour/Lib Dems.
In my view there is only one party that is truly progressive and inclusive on higher education in Scotland and that is the SNP. In my time as a student, had it not been for the SNP I would have had to have paid the graduate endowment, a charge I could not afford immediately after I graduated that would have increased my student loan.
“Education should be a right and not a privilege to be paid for.” Who said this? Former First Minister Jack McConnell long before following Westminsters orders and retaining tuition fees in Scotland.
On higher education, through my experience the SNP are the most progressive and inclusive party.
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Last edited by David Deary on Fri May 20, 2011 12:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AWIC
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Posts: 221
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| David Deary wrote: | | Alan Jelfs wrote: |
I'm rather puzzled why you think the funding of higher education in England was such a big issue for Scottish voters. |
Well, I don’t believe it is too much of a stretch. I realise education is a devolved issue as do most but a quick history lesson shows that what happens down south ends up happening in Scotland. Look at the introduction of tuition fees in Westminster under Labour and in Holyrood under Labour/Lib Dems.
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I know I haven't been in higher education for decades, but didn't the Labour/Lib Dem coalition abolish tuition fees for Scots in Scotland in 2000? |
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David Deary
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 11:59 am Post subject: |
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| AWIC wrote: |
I know I haven't been in higher education for decades, but didn't the Labour/Lib Dem coalition abolish tuition fees for Scots in Scotland in 2000? |
The graduate endowment did not abolish tuition fees.
I still got an invoice from the university at the start of each year stating the amount of tuition fees but showing it was paid by the government and that I would have to repay these via the graduate endowment which was roughly half of the value of tuition fees.
It did not abolish them and the suggestion it does makes me laugh every time I hear it. Its just propaganda... 
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Angus McDonald
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Andrew,
Much as the Scottish Nationalists would like to make this about The Labour Party (Without which the average he/she would have much less) be it in terms of education, health care, rights, minimum wage etc.
The Conservative Party or The Liberal Party it is actually about Independence! as the title of the thread states.
This is not about divorce from The Labour Party it is all about 'Independence' and at the heart of it is a nationalistic desire to be 'Independent' from whom/what. It is ofcourse 'Independence' from the well constructed bogey man, 'England' That's what it's all about and I will always believe the Union of the countries is a good thing, forward looking and the two together are greater than the parts separate. Apologies to Welsh and Irish onlookers.
So Scot Nats should state it clearly. They are a one issue party instigating independence from 'England' It really is as simple as that.
regards,
Angus |
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David Deary
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Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Angus McDonald wrote: |
So Scot Nats should state it clearly. They are a one issue party instigating independence from 'England' It really is as simple as that.
regards,
Angus |
Sorry Angus,
I wholly disagree with you. I voted SNP because they were the best option for me and they would stand up for Scotland against the ConDems not because I necessarily believe in independence. I am yet to be convinced by the arguments.
Also for the Labour party's dominance at Westminster from '97 did things improve as much as they should have? I don't know...
Anyways back to topic - I'm not convinced that an independent Scotland would benefit chess in Scotland. An indication might be how agreeable the SNP Scottish government would be in contributing more to chess in Scotland through lobbying from CS and its members.
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Angus McDonald
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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No problem David,
Lots of people voted SNP for lots of different reasons. Many of which have been explained here.
The heart of the SNP and the driving force behind the SNP is 'Independence' and that in effect means 'Independence from England' |
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admin
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought it was also independence from Wales and Northern Ireland as well |
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Angus McDonald
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| Posted: Fri May 20, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed Andy.
I'm happy to be in a Union with Wales and Northern Ireland. Indeed all 4 countries are very interconnected. I've never been to Northern Ireland but I did work for 6 months in Dublin. The economy was booming at that time but since then the Independent Ireland has really been struggling.
Nevertheless Eire with a population of about 4 million has a tremendous land resource relative to it's population. Scotland also has masses of land relative to it's population and land development could see Scotland fair well in a world which has just reached a population of 7 billion. England though would still be naturally our biggest market and being on good terms with them and in a Union will help that. Add to that the fact that most produce and products imported to Scotland pass through England and we will still be 'Dependent' on England to allow importation of goods etc.
Being British together is economically sound and also desirable as a step towards peace and greater co-operation between countries.
regards,
Angus |
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