| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
sigrun
King
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 307
Location: Europa
|
 Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I enjoyed reading this discussion - there are quite a few things I didn't know about & its especially pleasing that the counterarguments have persuaded Stuart that the fee is worthwhile! It's not often that arguments help to change someone's opinion!
I especially like the wee link on various pages to take you back to the home page.
_________________
''All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.'' Voltaire |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
Nice try, Sigrun - though you'll have to do better than that to get me cutting and pasting and 'proving' that I didn't say what you said I said! Cannae be bothered with all that! Would have expected better from you, though  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Deary
Queen
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject: Quick question... |
|
|
Just to play devil's advocate.
What would prevent a member from giving their login details to a non member so they could login to the system and view their grade?
_________________
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
William Hulme
Queen
Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 84
|
| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ....their morals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
|
| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question... |
|
|
| David Deary wrote: | Just to play devil's advocate.
What would prevent a member from giving their login details to a non member so they could login to the system and view their grade? |
That I track the IP addresses who login and can track which are genuine logins and which are not.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David Deary
Queen
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 98
|
| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Quick question... |
|
|
| AMcHarg wrote: |
That I track the IP addresses who login and can track which are genuine logins and which are not. |
What about those who use multiple computers ie. work, home, university computers etc? I don't really see how you could distinguish between logins to be honest.
Unless you would fix an ip address but thats no use to those of us always on the move.
_________________
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1386
|
| Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| It is simpler than you think... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Quick question... |
|
|
| David Deary wrote: | | AMcHarg wrote: |
That I track the IP addresses who login and can track which are genuine logins and which are not. |
What about those who use multiple computers ie. work, home, university computers etc? I don't really see how you could distinguish between logins to be honest.
Unless you would fix an ip address but thats no use to those of us always on the move. |
What happens is that you develop a pattern of use which is then determined to be the genuine use. Random deviations from that can be monitored and compared with other records of known visits by other players and you can determine in certain cases whether the system is being used in the way you describe. It can be done, and as Andy points out: it's not as difficult as you think! =) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Alan Tate
King
Joined: 01 Feb 2007
Posts: 377
Location: Edinburgh
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| We are being watched! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Alan Tate wrote: | | We are being watched! |
No, unless an issue develops there will be no human intervention whatsoever. A computer program is perfectly capable of establishing inconcistencies in login patterns that might suggest abuse of the system. Protecting Chess Scotland's intellectual property rights is important, especially given one of the reasons for upgrading is to improve finances by increased membership.
A |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 5:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wasn't going to post again on this thread until someone, Douglas Bryson's partial response notwithstanding, actually bothered to address the very specific and pertinent points I'd raised - something the recent posts certainly don't do!
However................. what on earth are they adding to the debate, unless of course it is all intended to be ironic?
I don't believe for one minute that the computer whizzkids can tell whether someone logging in is a real member or simply someone else using their details. Patterns, inconsistencies - come off it. How can you possibly tell whether somone is a member logging in from a different computer or a non member. To make this work would require a degree of monitoring and intervention that would surely be counterproductive. Also, if someone was willing to give someone else their login details then it might be assumed that they'd also be unwilling to admit to this, thus making it harder to work out which were bona fide member log ins and which were not?
I'd point out that I'm in no way advocating that members give their log in details to non members!!
Given that I started this thread to address the issue in a way that was meant to be critical but constructive, I owe it to the debate to finish by saying that this particular problem would not exist were the approach I'm advocating adopted.
Given this is election week, can I mischievously add that, were the issues under consideration transferred to a macro-economic scale regarding, say, the raising of revenue to fund the NHS and the right of access to the NHS, then I'd hope a lot of you wouldn't be espousing similar views - otherwise we might be in for a shock election result come Thursday |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
admin
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1386
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Stuart,
Trust me, it is easy to do |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AMcHarg
King
Joined: 19 Nov 2008
Posts: 623
Location: Livingston, Scotland
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stuart Blyth wrote: | I wasn't going to post again on this thread until someone, Douglas Bryson's partial response notwithstanding, actually bothered to address the very specific and pertinent points I'd raised - something the recent posts certainly don't do!
However................. what on earth are they adding to the debate, unless of course it is all intended to be ironic?
I don't believe for one minute that the computer whizzkids can tell whether someone logging in is a real member or simply someone else using their details. Patterns, inconsistencies - come off it. How can you possibly tell whether somone is a member logging in from a different computer or a non member. To make this work would require a degree of monitoring and intervention that would surely be counterproductive. Also, if someone was willing to give someone else their login details then it might be assumed that they'd also be unwilling to admit to this, thus making it harder to work out which were bona fide member log ins and which were not?
I'd point out that I'm in no way advocating that members give their log in details to non members!!
Given that I started this thread to address the issue in a way that was meant to be critical but constructive, I owe it to the debate to finish by saying that this particular problem would not exist were the approach I'm advocating adopted.
Given this is election week, can I mischievously add that, were the issues under consideration transferred to a macro-economic scale regarding, say, the raising of revenue to fund the NHS and the right of access to the NHS, then I'd hope a lot of you wouldn't be espousing similar views - otherwise we might be in for a shock election result come Thursday |
You can actually, it happens frequently on many websites. It's never going to be full-proof, but if someone accesses the site using different IP addresses at exactly the same time, that's a pretty big hint. Other signs are when people access the site using lots of different computers. A combination of the above factors will give the game away sooner or later.
The method you propose might not have the above issue but it wouldn't make any money either, which we are set to be desperately short of if we don't get our grant.
I'm not sure how you can compare the system to the NHS though!  Not having access to the grading information isn't going to be life-threatening, or even harmful to your health (unless you have a very strange relationship with statistics). Hopefully the polls have got it spot-on for Thursday's election. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stuart Blyth
King
Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 209
|
| Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You can't tell for sure whether someone is or is not a member.
It may well be you have strong suspicions, which is not the same thing. What would the sanctions be? How would you use this information?
The NHS remark was intended to be analogous, and I stand by it.
Can you explain why my suggestions would make no money? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Angus McDonald
King
Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 162
|
| Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 7:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Andrew,
Well done on the new website.
You mentioned,
| Quote: | | Hopefully the polls have got it spot-on for Thursday's election. |
What are the polls saying that is hopeful? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
