Chess Scotland Noticeboard

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

And Ed Milliband a devotee!?

Old article but perhaps helpful in the future?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/chess-makes-its-opening-gambit-to-be-olympic-sport-427839.html

Alex McFarlane · King Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 413

I only became aware of this legislation a few months ago.

However the reality is nowhere near as positive as the article might imply. It only applies to chatitable status and even then it seems to have stalled with the Charity Commissioners.

To my mind it doesn't really give chess the status of a sport but gives it (in theory) the same status as sports for charitable purposes (eg gift aid).

There is still a lot of work which would need to be done to have chess recognised as a sport and because of the nature of the legislation it would have to be done through Westminster rather than Edinburgh.

Some ECF attempts failed because only England were lobbying and not all parts of the UK. At least that appears to have been the excuse given.

Wales and Scotland still get educational grants. I don't think chess in N Ireland gets any govt support. England, of course, will shortly lose its grant from the Culture Department.

Craig Pritchett · Queen Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 114

...And before anyone gets over-excited, the Charities Commission doesn't hold sway in Scotland. We have our own independent body OSCR (sufficient for google purposes).

...having said that, it's relatively easy, though time-consuming and requiring some cost, to set up a charitable body that's chess-related in Scotland - as long as you satisfy OSCR's requirements (google them / usually you require a legally approved deed and approved trustees for starters).

- the charitable body must, however, be wholly independent and completely focused on the approved charitable aims as approved by OSCR, e.g. suitable defined / designed support for junior chess, such as defined in the deed for the SJCA chess educational trust, of which I'm a trustee (I think charities could also be designed that might get OSCR approval for, say domestic / international support for adults and/or seniors chess, including bona fide costs but excluding any player remuneration ... needs more attention).

- Subject to change and it is always worth checking on the rules from time to time, this, as I understand it, essentially rules out bodies like Chess Scotland themselves applying for charitable status, ... but any body, such as Chess Scotland or chess clubs, could certainly support and work in partnership with any arms-length charitable organisation that either solely promotes (or is willing to approve) an approved charitable chess cause ... the absolutely key criteria remain always 100% trustee independence and OSCR approval.

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Thanks to Alex and Craig for their take on things. I think there is potential to cycle parents contributions towards their children representing their country through a charity to get gift aid?? That's another cycling challenge for you Craig Smile

There were a few main points of interest for me here.

A figure of 4 million chess players in the UK was mentioned.
Stated as 2nd to football in popularity. (gulp, somebody pass the smelling salts)
and perhaps most significantly the now leader of her majesty's opposition
quoted as stating that attitudes to chess and games not being sport are dated. That was 4 years ago so they're even more dated now Smile

regards,

Angus

SteveHilton · King Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 443 Location: Greenock

I do not understand what is stopping CS from achieving charitable status Craig. As regards changing the status to a sport, there has to be agreement to this from all the parliaments and assemblies of the UK. This was confirmed to me by both the previous and current Scottish administrations.

Craig Pritchett · Queen Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 114

To resolve (the charities point) - google OSCR and review the (very, very detailed conditions for charitable approval). ChessScotland, a grant (at present!) +fee-based organisation doesn't like like it has any obvious niche there ... but I could be wrong. It might well take a lot of effort to check it out properly. You could also simply try phoning OSCR for a rough initial response (they are very responsive). It's much easier simply for a body like CS (or clubs or individuals and indeed other charities looking for a partner) to apply to existing charities for support ... for which you need a truly worthy project and aims... Over to CS!?

To be frank, I think spending enormous amounts of energy on trying to breach the existing (and very longstanding) stone wall on the classification of chess as a sport isn't worth the candle now, although it should, of course, still be kept under review in case the near blanket opposition by the existing sports orgs in the UK should eventually change ... I think almost 100% doubtful. But, hey, that's just my view!! Chess can fight for recognition and support in other ways and still has a lot of goodwill (and even support) in political and civil and local government circles without recognition as a sport (and might lose some of that that were it to reclassified and have to compete with other sports).

HughBrechin · Posted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject:

I've never understood why people think reclassifying chess as a sport would be good for funding anyway. Sports funding is a) incredibly competitive and b) dwindling. Far better to emphasise its educational benefits, inclusive nature and such, I'd have thought.
Also, I think I've said before that I don't really agree with the idea that something that really only differs from Noughts and Crosses or Connect 4 in terms of its degree of complexity (admittedly, by a lot of complexity) should be seen as a sport, but that's beside the point.

DMB · King Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 267

It's a bit like the emperor's new clothes - we all are being asked to believe in something we know to be patently false.

I mentioned before these US Spelling Bee competitions. All the kids have memorised all these big words (opening theory) and the parents are massively keen on their progeny to win (can recall that in the chess a few times too).

What about budgie breeding - they are so competitive there was even budgie murders recently.

I once played in the heats of the Scottish Monopoly Championships - it's tiring moving that top hat round the board - is that a sport?

Or the classic put down by an MP quoted at the start of Jim Plaskett's book Playing to Win "You might as well call rose-growing a sport!".

Stuart Blyth · King Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 209

Ho hum
It's that time of year again!
Does anything need adding to what Douglas/Hugh have said?
Chess is not a sport - you're having a laugh?
Surely, as has been suggested, the positive benefits of chess in terms of education and intellect should be stressed - mind you, if people keep claiming that chess is a sport, then it'll even become difficult to convince people that it has those benefits Wink

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

, Ho hum! It's a little bit like discussing with those who havn't yet seen the light. I agree with Ed I think your thinking is outdated Smile

Chess requires the same commitment as any sport. I think those who play at the highest levels are certainly competing as trained athletes.
It may well be mental training but the most successful will also be doing physical training, but it is still training. Sports Psychology is a growing field. The paste beneath is taken from a Sports Pyschology site. Also the change in the law mentioned in the article should be good for chess not bad if implemented so why argue against it?

The 4C's
Concentration, confidence, control and commitment (the 4C's) are generally considered the main mental qualities that are important for successful performance in most sports.

•Concentration - ability to maintain focus
•Confidence - believe in one's abilities
•Control - ability to maintain emotional control regardless of distraction
•Commitment - ability to continue working to agreed goals
The techniques of relaxation, centering and mental imagery can assist an athlete to achieve the 4C's.

Concentration
This is the mental quality to focus on the task in hand. If the athlete lacks concentration then their athletic abilities will not be effectively or efficiently applied to the task. Research has identified the following types of attention focus:

•Broad Narrow continuum - the athlete focuses on a large or small number of stimuli
•Internal External continuum - the athlete focuses on internal stimuli (feelings) or external stimuli (ball)
The demand for concentration varies with the sport:

•Sustained concentration - distance running, cycling, tennis, squash
•Short bursts of concentration - cricket, golf, shooting, athletic field events
•Intense concentration - sprinting events, bobsleigh, skiing
Common distractions are: anxiety, mistakes, fatigue, weather, public announcements, coach, manager, opponent, negative thoughts etc.

Strategies to improve concentration are very personal. One way to maintain focus is to set process goals for each session or competition. The athlete will have an overall goal for which the athlete will identify a number of process goals that help focus on specific aspects of the task. For each of these goals the athlete can use a trigger word (a word which instantly refocuses the athlete's concentration to the goal) e.g. sprinting technique requires the athlete to focus on being tall, relaxed, smooth and to drive with the elbows - trigger word could be "technique"

Athletes will develop a routine for competition that may include the night before, the morning, pre competition, competition and post competition routines. If these routines are appropriately structured then they can prove a useful aid to concentration.

Confidence
Confidence results from the comparison an athlete makes between the goal and their ability. The athlete will have self-confidence if they believe they can achieve their goal. (Comes back to a quote of mine - "You only achieve what you believe").

When an athlete has self confidence they will tend to: persevere even when things are not going to plan, show enthusiasm, be positive in their approach and take their share of the responsibility in success and fail.

To improve their self confidence, an athlete can use mental imagery to:

•visualise previous good performance to remind them of the look and feel
•imagine various scenarios and how they will cope with them
Good goal setting (challenging yet realistic) can bring feelings of success. If athletes can see that they are achieving their short term goals and moving towards their long term goals then confidence grows.

Confidence is a positive state of mind and a belief that you can meet the challenge ahead - a feeling of being in control. It is not the situation that directly affects confidence; thoughts, assumptions and expectations can build or destroy confidence.

High self confidence

•Thoughts - positive thoughts of success
•Feelings - excited, anticipation, calm, elation, prepared
•Focus - on self, on the task
•Behaviour - give maximum effort and commitment, willing to take chances, positive reaction to set backs, open to learning, take responsibility for outcomes
Low self confidence

•Thoughts - negative, defeat or failure, doubt
•Feelings - tense, dread, fear. not wanting to take part
•Focus - on others, on less relevant factors (coach, umpire, conditions)
•Behaviour - lack of effort, likely to give up, unwilling to take risks (rather play safe), blame others or conditions for outcome

admin · Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386

One thing I like to point to when this debate comes up. Chess is a sport (and indeed the national sport) in more countries than it is not considered a sport

Craig Pritchett · Queen Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 114

Chess is indeed a sport and it "should" be recognised as such. To clarify my post above, however, I just don't think there's much value in spending much energy in trying to battle for such recognition as we aren't ever likely to get it. It's daft, but the world isn't rational in many respects and this is one of them. All of the detailed arguments have been made over the years on this noticeboard and elsewhere (over decades).

Now if someone could line up a guaranteed 51% MSP majority in favour of reclassification that would be different. I'd support them, but I would caution them that they are about to take on what I called in my earlier post a "stone wall" (indeed it's almighty). Forget it! But don't forget all that we have got and fight hard to retain and expand it!!

SteveHilton · King Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 443 Location: Greenock

As I pointed out earlier that it is not enough to get the majority in the Scottish Paliament to agree to a reclassification of chess as a sport. This would need the agreement of all the parliaments and assemblies in the UK.
I am in agreement with Admin when he says that chess is a sport. Getting chess recognised as a sport is important as it could open up more avenues for funding.
Craig, Charities can charge membership fees but they have to be minimal fees. The Braille Chess Association is also a registered charity and has a membership fee system.

Look at the top of the BCA homepage

http://www.braillechess.org.uk/

Alex McFarlane · King Joined: 13 Mar 2007 Posts: 413

Steve,

It is not the membership fees which are the problem. It would be (and I hope the top players don't laugh here) paying fees to GMs etc to compete in the Olympiad which would fall foul of OSCR.

If you paid fees for players to compete in the Scottish you would also be in trouble. Obviously there are grey areas. Paying a GM to compete for his own benefit would be wrong but giving the same money to the same person to enable others to get title norms may well be legitimate.

Such things are a nightmare for administrators - and a gold mine for lawyers Evil or Very Mad

Craig Pritchett · Queen Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 114

Someone simply has to contact OSCR if they want to push this. The braille chess org is presumably registered in England and approved by Charities Commission. OSCR may well have different rules. And a Braille org may well be more favourably considered than CS by either or both OSCR and the Commission. I doubt this is straightforward at all!