Chess Scotland Noticeboard

Pat · Knight Joined: 08 Mar 2007 Posts: 18

There are already a couple of threads discussing the problems with the Scottish- with costs and titled player participation seeming to be major headaches.

What about just abandoning the idea of norm opportunities...so rare at the Scottish that maybe should be deemed irrelevant....with one norm every 10 years or so its maybe a bit ridiculous to be worried about providing the opportunity. The top players could be asked about whether the event should be FIDE rated or not.

Lets just think about a seriously good Open event...lets say 6 rounds over 3 days with SNCL time controls...good holiday location (Oban or St Andrews or whatever) played over a holiday weekend. Should be easier to plan 10-12 months in advance which would satisfy one of Georges points.

This could be attractive to family groups as could be held in an attractive locations with camping/caravan facilities etc and the total costs of partcipation would be far less than a 7-9 day event.

Lets say max £30 entry fee for Open...with IMs/GMs free entry with say £100/£200 appearance fees for top 10 titled players. There should also be a Major and Minor.

Highest placed Scot would be Scottish Champion with tie breaker established in advance.

The winner would probably have a much higher TPR than most recent Scottish Champs and it would be nice to have a good summer Congress.

johnmcbride · Queen Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 94

Some good ideas there.

Killing yourself to get a norm event is just going to kill the Scottish for good, as players are just not prepared to pay the sums required. It seems that foreign tournaments are just a more cost effective way for players to achieve their norms. Titled players need to make a living, but this is better done via sponsors/built up reserves and not via the entry fees. The average chess player should not be treated as cash cows. It would be better to have an event that always pays it's way.

£30 entry would be a reasonable fee for three days chess and would encourage a higher level of participation. Something that would be of benefit to chess overall in Scotland.

Two four hour rounds a day for three days, is easier to do than one five game for five days and two five hour games for two days. Or even one game a day for nine days. Lose the norm idea and you lose the need for a nine round tournament.

Three days will open up more venues and cost less. It would also be easier to sell to family. As it would take less days of precious holiday time and it is easier to tack a few non playing chess days either side for the family to enjoy.

I am however, not sure about the funding for titles players, £1-2,000 per event might be a strain and CS could end up funding it. It might be better to allow the event to build up reserves for three years and have a fully funded good/stronger event every fourth year. Reserves built up could then be used towards fees etc.

Maybe the plan should be a norm tournament in Edinburgh every fourth year. I say Edinburgh because it has always proven to be a more popular city venue with the Scottish and foreign players than elsewhere else and there is plenty of good accommodation, plus there are good transport links.

AMcHarg · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:24 pm Post subject:

I agree with everything posted above. (I am saying that a lot lately but it's not because I am lazy and can't be bothered disagreeing, it's genuinly because I do agree! Laughing

)

It's a very interesting alternative, and more attractive imo, to have a very nice long-weekend Open 6-rounder as the Scottish Championship with a very big 'Olympic' styled Scottish Championship every four years. Not only will it solve the financial issues but it will also give people something to look forward to. By spreading the costs over 4 years it would allow us to provide a tournament with very high quality oposition (and GM norm opportunities), which is better than going as we are at the moment with declining numbers.

As a Chess community we have to face the facts of a changing environment. Irrespective of the countless reasons for the poor participation it's clear that something has got to change and the above posts are very good ideas imo.

Cool

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Edinburgh

I like the idea. Normally 2 rounds a day are a problem but if it is like this then you can just play through it. Could certainly be worth a shot anyway - maybe even think about a long weekend with 8 rounds?
Agree also that players rated 2000-2200 chasing norms at the Scottish is a pointless exercise...Just have a worthwhile event to determine Scottish Champion...

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Looks like a good suggestion.

Might take some pressure off our volunteer organisers who appear to be pushing a bolder up a mountain to get the Scottish organised each year.

We'll support the Scottish under this format because it also takes pressure off the cost for players also.

A bigger tournament every 4 years also sounds like a good suggestion.

GN · King Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 415

Doing over a bank holiday weekend sounds a good idea to me. Only issue I see is that the venue costs could go up if it were a hotel. On the other hand, possibly not if we use a school or other such public building? I'd also suggest we include a round on the Friday and make it a 7 round event. 7 rounds creates a better chance of an outright winner. Giving up 1 day vacation time for chess is much more realistic proposition for most people than giving up a full week.

Excellent idea!

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Good idea folks.

Can I suggest that universities may be a good idea because of flats/diggs. They aren't all that bad! Plus universities have plenty event spaces over the summer.

admin · Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386

Lynsey,

The Scottish this year was played at a University. People did not want to travel.

I made enquires to various Universities last year to host the Glorney. The costs were quite eyewatering from some of them!

I am a graduate of Heriot-Watt so I have contacted them to get costs for the Scottish for next year, hoping as a graduate I can get a discount Smile

. We'll see what comes back.

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Thanks for this Andy. I was aware it was in Hamilton which I heard for some it was an adventure to get to. My comments were in relation to a long weekend in August.

My thoughts were specifically central Glasgow and Edinburgh. They will have accomodation that a family could stay in for a reasonable s/c or h/b rate. It would probably also create a chess community for socials and have facilities close by.

Take for example Napier, these flats are in the centre of Edinburgh, peak time and very close to an array of local and regional transport. I think s/c is an excellent option for family or friends because you don't have huge additional costs for eating out which I feel creates value in the accomodation price.

I can personally vouch that these flats are above average student accomodation.
http://www.napier.ac.uk/businessactivities/conferencesandlettings/Summer%20Accommodation/Pages/AccommodationRates2010.aspx

In addition there are lots of recreational facilities near by plus the Fringe.
Public transport to the centre is probably the same price as a tank of petrol and extra services are provided for August.

IMO this is good value for high season and attractive to groups, friends and families. Heriott Watt despite having conference facilities is a 30 minute drive / 1 hour bus out of Edinburgh.

admin · Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386

Lynsey,

The central ones are they ones that came back with "eyewatering" quotes!

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Here's a thought - rather than CS organise its own stand alone event what about inviting the organisers of the weekend congresses to bid for the right to stage the event. Inaddition, or perhaps instead of, an open section they have a 'Scottish Championship' section. Perhaps two congresses could combine to have a Championship run over two weekends.

Glasgow, Edinburgh and Dundee all have brilliant venues.

AMcHarg · Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject:

Keith S Rose · Queen Joined: 07 Mar 2007 Posts: 107

It just so happens...

I don’t want to muddy Alex McF’s research waters but Dundee congress’ venue (David Lloyd Leisure) is available next year for - IMO - a very attractive (i.e. low) cost. The availability includes flexibility for the event format – 9-day or 7-day, with or without a weekend for congress-format tournaments. All the facilities and ‘enhancements’ available to players at the Dundee Congress would be available to the Scottish.

Want somewhere for the family to entertain themselves for a week? Angus, Dundee and surrounds are stuffed with history, sports facilities, culture, leisure, blue-flag beach.

Accommodation? I believe I could cut a deal with one of the nearby PTIs (as I have for the upcoming Dundee congress); nearby Broughty Ferry has plenty of B&Bs; Monifieth has 2 caravan/camping parks, including holiday homes for hire. And there’s much more not far away.

More reasons? Several, but let’s see if there’s support for this venue.

The main drawback (the only drawback?) is that it is 15 minutes from Dundee bus and train stations. Is that too much?

Keith Rose

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

Andy - two words - RUTHLESS HAGGLING!

Conference and events facilities are also suffering in the recession because organisations have less money to spend on external facilities. Increasingly, such facilities are all competing against one another for association groups. I also think that adults can cook which most kids can't so it adds value to s/c accomodation in a central location. In addition for such facilities parking is free, there can be access to extra facilities - gyms, internet, security etc. They are also in the centre of cities which are nice for weekend breaks.

Mike, I like your idea of congresses chumming up but what if other competitors could only make 1 weekend for the congress and did not want to play the congress. Would there be seperate sections or if they just got bundled in too, would this affect the results? Would you suggest congresses near one another or seperate dates? Who would the revenue go to, CS or the congress organiser?

GN · King Joined: 30 Mar 2007 Posts: 415