Chess Scotland Noticeboard

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

All this article is my own opinion and it is allegations only. The facts will hopefully be decided in court. I have removed any names of psychiatrists as requested by the moderator. Andy is this cleaned up version ok ?

The bbc printed an article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8319067.stm

The stv also printed an article
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/west-central/132003-dumbarton-woman-sues-health-board-over-detention-in-psychiatric-ward/
This shows a picture after Claire was assaulted by staff . The rules in the hospital are that all patients must take medication. Claire was complaining about this and her unlawful detention, so five male staff beat her up in a one-sided fight. I smuggled a mobile phone camera into the hospital to take this photo.

On 19 October, Claire and I sat in the front row of the NHS Annual Review audience with t-shirts and a banner saying WHY ARE YOU SO HORRIBLE? Claire asked a question to Nicola Sturgeon about mental health law, you have to fast forward to listen,
http://www.nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s1376_1 Audio Files 9.Questions & Answers Session , Claire's question and answers from 47 minutes 4 seconds to 50 minutes 54 seconds.

On 22 October, Claire's story appeared in the Scottish Sun & Scottish Daily Mail

On 30 October the story appeared in our local Lennox Herald. No evidence of English coverage.

The Mental Welfare Commission is a totally incompetent body which is supposed to look after patients’ interests but instead looks after the interest of psychiatrists. At their meeting last week, I asked a question of a psychiatrist who refused to answer so I just held up a banner stating PSYCHIATRISTS ARE EVIL

Two well known chess players are psychiatrists but are not prepared to stand up publicly and criticise another psychiatrist. This inaction does nothing to stop the widespread abuse which is happening in Scotland.

I would like to praise Walter Buchanan of Edinburgh West Chess Club who argued against a psychiatrist at Mental Health Tribunals. He asked the psychiatrist what Claire’s symptoms were. The psychiatrist said “complex paranoid delusions”. Walter said “please be more specific” The psychiatrist said “ trust my judgement”. Walter said “ I must press you”. The Tribunal gave Walter the red card. He was removed from the room for disrupting proceedings.

Tribunal hearings decide whether you can stop your medication. They are the modern day equivalent of witchcraft trials. Each member is paid £400 a day to keep you in the system. It’s a no brainer as to what their decision will be.

I have met about 15 psychiatrists now. There are two types
(a) 12 of them are evil, these include the two well known chess players (who I expect are paid £100k salaries to get things right) , they discuss your case but then fail to take action
(b) 3 of them are very evil, they will not discuss your case, threaten to increase your dose of medication if you protest, and threaten to section your family if they protest too.

Some of the things and human rights abuses which are happening in 21st century Scotland would not be out of place in countries like China, Burma, Zimbabwe etc

Several films accurately denote psychiatrists as evil and the horrors of lunatic asylums
eg The Changeling, Beauty and the Beast, One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest, A Beautiful Mind, Muzzy in Gondoland, The Prisoner

The initial hearings for our case are in Dumbarton Sheriff Court on 25 November. The NHS are trying to throw the case out , saying that courts have no jurisdiction over mental hospitals.

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

Just to say one or two people have contacted me.
The links in my previous post do seem to work despite the odd comment.

Both my wife and I are total anarchists about this and we do not mind going to prison just to prove a point and are happy to be sued.

What we cannot face is being sectioned. Claire tells me that taking the drugs is 100 times worse than the confinement. She would rather be imprisoned for 10 years without drugs than be put in a psychiatric hospital for 1 month and take the drugs.

John_Dempsey · Queen Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 113

I know that some consider this posting thread somehow inappropriate on a chess website. I have had to consider this opinion before reaching my own opinion. My reasoning runs as follows:

Andrew Muir is a chess player.
Andrew Muir is a Scottish chess player.
Andrew Muir is having a major problem with a facet of the society we play chess in.
Andrew Muir is one of the most honest men I have met.
Should he share this with us? Should we support him?
Are we as chess players not part of this bigger community?
Should we not have a voice?
Many people around the world read this noticeboard, If Andrew were to start up his own blog, then who would know the anguish that he and his family are going through?
He is one of us
.
I think the answer is yes, he should hve a voice of these things.We are providing a servicw to our community of chess players, Human beings, not software.

We cannot,and should not, divorce ourselves from the society we live in. There are so very many good things, but also not so good.

Andrew and his family are suffering just now. In my view unjustly so, but that is only my opinion.

Andrew and I have had our 'differences' over the years. God knows that is true! But in the fight to get a fair crack of the whip for his wife I support him completely.

He has the right to share this with us, as have we all. Do not give up that right.

I fully expect this posting to be covered' very quickly by subsequent postings trying to divert us back into something less nightnarish than Andrews difficulties. Mark them well, and remember. There but for the grace of God, go any of us. We are one fanily, one community. What impacts one, inpacts us all.

John Dempsey

andyburnett · King Joined: 20 Feb 2007 Posts: 249

I don't really want to get involved in this, but since no-one else seems willing to step up and point out the obvious I guess I'd better do it.

We are NOT one big happy chess family as John would have us believe. If we were then Andy wouldn't be describing 2 of our 'kin' as "evil", naming them in his original post and then reluctantly removing their names whilst stating he didn't care whether he gets sued over it or not (and sod the site which could equally be faced with legal action?!).

As I mentioned before (in a post which was deleted by admin) there is little doubt that Andy and his family are having a hellish time, but using this forum for extremely detailed subjective views, which include serious attacks on other chessplayers, is wrong in my opinion.

Andy Burnett

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

I wasn't going to post on this controversial subject but then I persuaded myself because somebody need to say this.

Andy's initial post was wrong to make allegations agianst two named individuals. Leaving it in place could have put CS and especially our notice board moderator into a difficult legal position That post has now been modified and we should discuss the modified verion.

In that modified version Andy Muir starts by stating
**************************************************
All this article is my own opinion and it is allegations only. The facts will hopefully be decided in court.
****************************************************
Lets have some faith in the judgement of the court.

I am fully in agreement with John Dempsey's comments which were based upon the modified Andy Muir post at the start of this thread which is the version we can read today.

Reading John's words again today I don't think one big happy family is a fair or particularly useful phrase in this context. An extended sense of family or community can exist on various levels and scales. Disagreements between individuals and factions do not disqualify them from being communities. Big families are not necessarily happy. That does not stop us supporting relatives in trouble.

I wish Andy Muir luck on the 25th and any subsequent dates

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

The chess players who I have called evil are actually very nice people to talk to. I have no evidence at all that they personally have performed any evil acts. However what goes on inside these mental hospitals, and I have seen it with my own eyes, is too disgusting to elaborate on without offending someone. Psychiatrists have a moral obligation to stamp out any abuse they know of. They do not do this. They have a secret club not to report any abuse. This covering up is what I call evil. If I see evidence that this abuse is stopped then I will withdraw the evil tag.

I know that many people are interested in this and it could affect any one of us so I will give a factual legalistic report later this week on how the court case went on wednesday.

Paul Denham · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:17 pm Post subject:

Phil, Andy B,

Unless my habitual skim reading has caught me ought again then John Dempsey did not state we are "one big happy family" but state "we are one fanily, one community" which I am sure we are all correct means family.

I promised myself a while back after the whole Crowwood/Inverclyde relegation/M8 traffic situation that I would only express constructive or positive or at worst neutral views on this noticeboard or not use it at all.

I for one have sympathy for the loss and the serious hardships that Andy and his wife have had to endure and have the humility to realise that many events are beyond our control and that miscarriage and psychiatric intervention (whether legal or warranted or not) could affect my life and my family.

Despite having a neighbour who is a consultant psychiatrist who seems socially a very nice chap, though professionally I do not know him, I have no firm views on psychiatrists in general and nothing to add re the specific 15 psychiatrists Andy mentions.

Nor do I have any hard facts concerning the current court case which Andy & his wife are pursuing.

I think that many people have seen no reason to post in response to Andy's original and modified messages in part because the subject is a difficult one but more than that, because Andy has not been seeking our action (e.g. petitions etc) nor asking for our opinions on the topic.

Not knowing any details of the case, I merely hope that justice is carried out in this case, as in any and if the decisions go in favour of Andy and his wife that it helps them in some way from what has obviously been a difficult time.

Paul

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

The NHS asked for a 4 week continuation (delay) which was granted by the sheriff. We all return on 23 december for the next hearing.

Gavin · Bishop Joined: 04 Aug 2007 Posts: 33 Location: Dunfermline

Without knowing any further details it certainly sounds horrific and you have my genuine sympathy. Sympathy in a specific case can't stretch to agreeing on the appropriateness of the more general allegations made there, I'm afraid, but I hope you get some sort of outcome which is sufficiently satisfactory to enable you to put it behind you.

wllmherk · Knight Joined: 28 Jun 2009 Posts: 10

Don't think this thread belongs on a chess forum. Should be removed IMO

sigrun · King Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 307 Location: Europa

I feel sorry for Andy & his family - may such terrible things never happen to any of us.
_________________
''All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.'' Voltaire

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

Siegrun
That is the whole point of this topic and my post.
I am trying to make Scotland a better and safer place to live by my actions.
I am taking a leaf out of what Gary is doing in Russia.
I know it has nothing to do with chess but we should be much more than just chess players.
Anyone that thinks it is x-rated (which it is) should just look away

Graeme Forbes · Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:15 am Post subject:

I had avoided posting on this topic, because whilst in general terms I see no problem with Andy starting a topic on psychiatry, it strikes me that the specific nature of Andy's initial post is in regard of an ongoing legal case, this is a public forum after all.

With this in mind -and goodness knows everyone will read of Andy's predicament and think there but for the grace- I do think, as public fora either both sides should be presented -this of course wont happen with a large organisation such as a health board- or neither, which is a matter for moderation.

At the very least the evident bias throughout -perhaps justified, I of course do not know enough of either sides case to comment- should be reigned in, whilst it may be Andy's opinion alone it does the organisation as a whole -on open public fora- no help at all.

I also -having utmost sympathy for Andy and his situation- do think the use of words such as 'evil' cannot help any situation, no matter how heart felt.

That said, I'd wish him luck in his quest for his justice.

A Muir · King Joined: 15 Feb 2007 Posts: 489 Location: Dumbarton

The 2nd hearing of the case took place on 23rd December. Claire has taken out 3 Summary Cause actions: the NHS (psychiatrist), West Dunbartonshire Council (the social worker), McClure Collins (her solicitor).
All 3 defending parties asked in an Incidental application for the cases to be remitted to the Ordinary Cause roll. We did not want this as it increases our costs.
Our case was the last case called in the morning.
The Sheriff decided that according to section 37(2B) of the Sheriff Courts (Scotland) Act 1971, that the case may be remitted if it is important or difficult , expense is not relevant.
He said that accusing a doctor of criminal conduct and assault could hardly be more important and that there are difficult issues on clinical judgement & the law. Therefore the case is now an Ordinary Cause, we now have to serve a new writ within 21 working days, and it is essential we are represented now by a solicitor (previously we have been represented by W Hunter Watson, a lay person). The next court date is an options hearing on 25 March. I will give the next report after that.

Three previous cases of interest:
1. Ian Hamilton v Royal Bank of Scotland (february 2009) – when case was remitted to Ordinary Cause, Mr Hamilton, having received enough publicity, dropped his action.
2. Hunter v Hanley (1955) - it must be established that actions taken would not have been taken by anyone else acting with ordinary care i.e a high hurdle has to be cleared to prove medical negligence, and a lot of court actions fail this hurdle.
3. John Manweiler (2005) was paid over 3 million euros for a misdiagnosed mental illness, so if you do win you get high damages.

Stephen Hamilton · Rook Joined: 19 Apr 2007 Posts: 71

It is said that one way of judging a society is the way it treats those who suffer from mental illness. This of course will change and evolve as a society changes and evolves.The final outcome of the case of Akmal Shaikh in the early hours of this morning, notwithstanding the many interventions – at all levels - on his behalf, was indeed a sad one. Possibly like many people I only became aware of the circumstances a few days ago but it clearly raises many questions regarding the diagnosis, treatment and management of his illness, exploitation of vulnerable people and issues regarding human – and humane - judicial systems.