Chess Scotland Noticeboard

AndrewGreen · Knight Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Edinburgh

At the moment I feel like the mentality is buy one get one free and we are buying something we don't want. Of course kids will improve from ten days of chess. But do we really need to send them half way across the world to do this? People are talking about money and it seems that the argument is parents are paying the cost. Well maybe we could direct the money, that these parents seem to be willing to dish out, on coaches and playing in tournaments in Scotland?

Just because there is free this and that doesn't mean we have to take it. I don't think we can use numbers as any kind of indication of players improving. As Mike pointed out the ratings are likely to improve anyway cause the juniors are established. These kids are so young that the ratings can hardly be accurate. The best way is to do what Geoff did and look at the moves played.

The problem is we have a different idea of success. If a junior goes and scores say 3 or 2 out of 9 some of us are getting all giddy with excitement. No matter what you say to the kids I doubt they are happy with 2 or 3 out of 9. Of course they will perform above their rating if they are one of the lowest rated players so the numbers are irrelevant. As Clement pointed out no one seemed to mentioning Andrew Mcclement's stunning 5.5 out of 9. This was the only success the rest scored less than 50 percent and some of the scores sadly were against the local Italian fillers. As Andy pointed out it would be nice if money was spent on players we believe can achieve a certain standard in these tournaments.

In my opinion getting selected for Scotland should be an honour and that your country believes that you will go abroad and do well. Let's not full places just because we can.

If we are going to stick with the current policy it probably is better to send the kids to the Worlds rather than the Euros. The World Youth is a lot easier with there being a lot of small countries where chess is not so big. At least there they are more likely to get higher scores.

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Mike,

I was trying to be helpful by explaining a rough breakdown of the amounts involved so that others might have a rough idea of the sums involved. I am just using this board to discuss like any other poster in my opinion. If it makes you happy, nobody said 'vast sums' other than myself. My point is that they arn't being supported by 'vast sums' of money from Chess Scotland.

Robin,

I'm not certain of the exact breakdown of the figures but I think I have the proportions about right.

Andrew and Mike,

Assuming that parents will spend the same amount on training as supporting their children to play in a prestigious event like the European and World's where they get coaching anyway is too big an asumption imho.
I wouldn't pay £1000 for training for Maryann and Ian though I will pay it for them to get the opportunity I believe like you Andrew and like Mike's son they gained by merit. It appears the goalposts of what is a good performance have been moved upwards. No harm in a challenge but if it puts extra pressure on those already selected then I don't think it's the right time for it.

Some are in the cycle where they are reflecting on their past performances and others are in the cycle where they are preparing to do their best at what is to them a Massive Event. Is the Challenge to all those going now to score over half points or be told they failed Scotland? Whatever, I'm sure they'll all be trying their best.

regards,
Angus

AndrewGreen · Knight Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Edinburgh

I appreciate spending £1000 on coaching seems a bit extreme. However the benefits of spending that figure on coaching would outweigh the benefits of going to Worlds or Euros. The coaching at these events is not "proper coaching". A coach will try help you, prepare openings before and go over your games afterwards, but that is it. If you spent that money on regular coaching, a coach can form a repertoire round your style of play, go over your games, and generally point you in the right direction for self study on your weaknesses in the game. Trading all this for just 9 or 11 games of chess? I know which I would pick.

In theory the kid would get coached, test themselves in the Scottish tournaments; win quite a few tournaments in Scotland. Then they are ready. They have proved themselves in Scotland as champions and need a harder challenge.

As for the people selected I wish them luck and hope they enjoy the challenge.

JR · King Joined: 23 Jan 2007 Posts: 447 Location: Edinburgh

AndrewGreen · Knight Joined: 10 Dec 2008 Posts: 18 Location: Edinburgh

Agree with Joe. One thing though, I was invited to the Edinburgh IM norm event but sadly couldn't play due to University. They did everything possible to try let me play but it was not possible (changing round times). I am just guessing here but to get invited I think you had to play in the Scottish Championships and be a high scorer (why Alan and Martin Mitchell were invited). Why did other juniors not get invited who played in the Scottish? Probably because you need a high enough fide rating to make norms a realistic possibilitie for all players. Not completely sure about all this.

Anyway I went along and watched the event and followed it on Chandler cornered. Looked fantastic and hope another one happens in the future. The Edinburgh Fide event organised before was also very well ran and a pleasure to play in.

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

robin moore · King Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 164

Thanks Phil, I have a degree in haggling which means that is my responsibility to book our lot into whichever tourney we frequent. My advice is available at a very generous nominal fee unless of course you wish to haggle.....

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Hi Angus,

When I wrote

Chris Laidlaw · Knight Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 18

Graded below 1k and disqualified by age from entering myself (!) Embarassed

, I've read the postings (for the first time for quite a while) and, once again, repented of my decision! (So, no doubt, has anyone who has decided to read this! Wink

) I do agree with Mr Rocks. I don't know what the precise answer is to all this, to be frank. People are quite entitled to an opinion. The moderator is supposed to keep an eye on personalised inflammatory or derogatory statements. Does he? I just feel, with the above-named person, that there seems to me to be a highly inappropriate level of animosity in some of the retorts offered to genuine and, I believe, constructive criticism. 'Getting personal' about criticism simply fails to address the issue or (issues) itself (themselves)
I make this point with respect to all postings on the NB, not simply Junior NB postings. As it happens, the issue of selection itself is and always has been of great interest to me although I don't have any direct dealings with or any children involved in the International scene. In blunt terms, I 'have no particular axe' to grind other than to hope for a system that is not only fair and coherent but seen and agreed to be fair and coherent!
In some respects, the job of IJD is an impossible one if you hope to keep everyone happy. It's a bit of a 'poisoned chalice' , if you ask me. You may have to 'back your hunches' and, yes, of course, your 'hunches' can be and, sometimes, are wrong! The wisest thing to do, I think, is to admit you;ve screwed up rather than indulge in tedious tirades of self-justificatory you-know-what!
Selection, we all admit, just can't be done to suit everyone's ideas or prejudices. Choices have to be made-one of them, possibly the hardest, being not to send someone/a group/anyone to a given tournament for non-financial reasons. My argument, for what it's worth, is that selection is best done in a very consultative manner. My criticism is that, too often, the procedure has tended to be unnecessarily secretive. International selection , in many sports, tends to be 'closed door' stuff carried out by self-important people representing only their own interests!
My wry comment is reserved for selection for the Scottish international football team playing so-called 'friendlies' The problem for George B seems to be finding anyone of any note wanting to be selected!
By consultation, I mean that all parties likely to have a direct interest in the matter should, ideally, be involved in the process at the earliest possible point.
This may seem a bit too pious (it is!) but I truly believe that 'maxi-consultation' is a good way of reducing likely levels of animosity.
Is that what is happening now? Well, I need to be convinced that it is!!
Please note that I've very skillfully avoided bringing anyone's name into this posting other than Daniel's He has been 'selected' without his permission but as I am substantially in agreement with his despairing comment, I hope he does not mind. Hey, everyone, by all means let's keep this interesting discussion going, but ,please, shall we try to keep to the 'thread' of the discussion and avoid niggly personal 'crits' or 'asides'? (Bear in mind,also, that those who are not necessarily party to the debate may read what is said and draw their own conclusion about its participants!) Thank you! Razz

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758