Chess Scotland Noticeboard

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Well,

My two attended the Glorney/Faber events this year and hopefully got lots of good coaching.

I guess compulsory training events sounds pretty OK if you're from Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Soon gaining your place by 'Merit' may not be enough and the size of the parents bank balance might become more important.

Set it up by internet and we'll be there:-)

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Edinburgh

Hmm, the distance could be a problem i guess, so the internet could work for those too far away? Money should not be a barrier...

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Edinburgh

Daniel, for me, fun is something that i do purely for enjoyment, and the enjoyment is more important than the result? Representing your country in anything should be first and foremost about results?
I'm not saying don't enjoy chess, far from it, but performance should come first Smile

Just my opinion..

Mike, Maybe another reason is younger kids don't seem to know about the internet, where they can play online for free and gain valuable experience. All this could be remedied using some kind of structure you outlined in the other thread Smile

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

and the more you win the more you enjoy!

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Alan,

I don't have a problem with training days only in making them compulsory. Clearly others might get more from speaking with you personally and being at the same venue with you and other coaches whilst the travel down could see participants a bit tired and sluggish and quite a bit out of pocket. We'd rather put money into playing tournaments and coaching by internet but ofcourse we wouldn't wish to enforce internet coaching on others.

regards,

Angus

SteveHilton · King Joined: 24 Jul 2007 Posts: 443 Location: Greenock

Alan,
Two points here are important.
1/ Economic Disability. A lot of people have difficulty in finding funds ffor their childrens or anyone's training. I would agree that money should not come into it but sadly it does.
2/ Online training is very good for one to one. I did some online training before the World Braille Championship with Richard Palliser in 2006 and it was very useful. This might not be everyone 's cup of tea but to me is a solution to the question of distance

admin · Site Admin Joined: 09 Jan 2007 Posts: 1386

On the group coaching online idea, Just thinking out the box slightly but would Livemeeting be suitable for that?

Paul Denham · Posted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:28 am Post subject:

Alan,

Fair(ish) point re my comment about preparation for intermediate level players.

My comments below are geared towards the younger end of junior internationalist rather than the upper age end with players like Daniel and Clement.

I think the points Daniel makes though still seem to have most resonance - overfocus on openings is something which very respected guys like Dan Heisman (check out his latest novice nook article re the need for good time management, piece safety and piece activity before other things like fine tuning opening repertoire) and Mark Dvoretsky have talked about (his article in NIC's Chess Instructor 2009 covers this really well)... and a pitfall they warn against.

I think its right to show younger junior internationalists the way to prepare for an opponent in terms of repertoire and databases and but don't think it should be compulsory preparation.

Striving for results is an important factor when you have been selected ahead of others your age to represent your country as is fun, and we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that whilst some of the younger "junior elite" will be the adult elite in years to come, a significant number will become strong/intermediate club players at best in adulthood when things such as higher education, careers, families etc kick in.

Paul

Mike Scott · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 676 Location: Edinburgh

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Angus McDonald · King Joined: 08 Apr 2009 Posts: 162

Oh!

I meant to add that Gillespie's thoroughly deserved their win and are indeed Scotsman Champions! Thanks again to Jeremy for taking the team all that way north! Smile

Alan Tate · King Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 377 Location: Edinburgh

Maybe compulsory is a bit harsh. I would think 1 from 2, or 2 from 4 etc. would be s good idea. Failing that the internet would have to do.

Lynsey · Rook Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 77

I tried to post a couple of times on the subject with no luck, a couple of my thoughts have bee covered however I disagree with Andy in part that playing a minor is good preparation for a junior international.

It is a much different environment to play juniors at a longer time control, with different conditions. I think when we lost events like the Age Championships, Boys & Girls Champs etc we lost a basic setting. These events were to encourage longer play and a "serious" and competitive environment.

Im not sure how the Primary W-E is organised now, but its main purpose was to see how juniors could fair away from home alone, how they could play in an environment where they needed to be in the mindset for a strong competitive junior event at longer time controls - the overall performance of players in terms of game and attitude was take into consideration for international selection.

I think encouragement should be give to players who are perhaps not quite ready for worlds or euro to go instead to FIDE rated junior events - they used to have them in Germany, Spain and Italy. I presume they still do? This would set the environment for what was expected; long play, atmosphere, preperation etc and probably at a lesser cost to parents. This would hopefully give confidence to the player to be comfortable in such settings so that when they graduate to selection for the Euros and Worlds they know exactly what is required from them.

Perhaps our players would acheive better scores and medal opportunities if we sent a smaller delegation with intensive coaching. I.e 2 coaches for 6, not 19. Whilst sending those perhaps younger with potential talent to a lesser event like the FIDE rated junior events before being called up to events such as the Euros or Worlds. I am just wondering if because we have "free places" and this works out financially better in the budget if it has a greater cost on potential medal chances?

Alternatively send a huge delegation, a big enthusiastic team which learn from one another - but get a few more coaches on board, have a coupl of months preparation before the event and let a relationship with coach and player form to understand each others styles and strengths/weakness' so when at the event you can build on what the player has already, not cram information in to prepare for someone specifically and then not retain it.
I know it isn't feasible to have a host of coaches at the event, but again we have internet, we have technology.

Lyns

Phil Thomas · King Joined: 26 Mar 2007 Posts: 758

Lynsey,
I need to correct a few things but in my first paragraph I argue a debatable viewpoint.

Like many others I believe that moving into adult minors is a step forwards for our best juniors. They play adults who take their time. The junior thinks while the opponent is thinking. For many this simple scenario plays out and it is a major step forwards. Conversely if you pair off juniors and give them a long time to play their moves all too often you end up with a game played at their normal pace and a very large gap between games.

The girls championship in season 2008-09 was attached to the West of Scotland. Time limits were expanded to make it a 2 day event. Simultaneously boys played in a two day event also with a long time limit. However, the entries were poor & the feed back was because it was a two day event.

Age championship did not happen this year. In 2009 I ran age championships attached to the Scottish. This year for reasons I do not fully understand Andy was unable to run equivalent events at the Scottish in Edinburgh. Chess for Kicks and the BG sponsored novice event continued their successful run.

The Primary Individual has for years been one of the best events on the junior calendar. It continues to run with the same philosophy as before. The venue has been changed to give a better mix of physical activities.

There was much comment in advance that I was taking many juniors to Euroyouth who would do badly and it was implied that many would lose all their games and that they would be damaged by the process. In the event it is worth noting that all players reached 2 points with a round to go. All players recorded at least one win. Most of the credit for this goes to the players themselves and the work ethic they maintained up to and BEYOND the final round. It is not true to state that there was only one coach on the trip. For the under 12 members of the squad assistance came from many sources other than Alan Tate. I won’t attempt to evaluate all their individual contributions but I formally thank for their efforts Mike Scott, Bappa Roy, Andrew McClement, Clement Sreeves. Perhaps somebody out there would like to thank me for my input – which wasn’t limited solely to cheerleading and taking the hit from frustrations of working with Italian bureaucracy.

One of the reasons I sent so many players to the Euroyouth was the free accommodation on offer to players. For the first players in each section this is equivalent to a sponsorship of 495 Euro. My budget is not sufficient to replace this sum from reserves for alternative events around the continent. Juniors in my experience have realistic expectations and do not return home mentally damaged when they fail to become European champion. Here I talk about my experience at Euroyouth 2008 and Euroyouth 2009. Had I taken two coaches and 6 players I don’t think we would have brought back medals. Andrew McClement in the top half of the Swiss draw (another 20 FIDE points would have done) would have had a much better chance of a very high score.

Many posters on the noticeboard have commented upon the value of coaching within Scotland as a means of better preparing players before they go abroad. I am sure you will join me in thanking Michael Hanley for the initiative he started yesterday with around 40 juniors and 5 coaches from the Hamilton club. I am sure you will also wish the best of luck to David Oswald in his efforts to start a coaching programme.

It is not realistic to tag on year round junior training to my workload/remit/budget. What I do is voluntary unpaid work done in addition to my day job. I prioritise.

I would write more but I have work to do on preparations for the WorldYouth in November & Liverpool Quadrangular in December.

I will take questions in public at the agm in August 2010. Until then my responses will be largely limited to responding to private e mails and at formal meetings.

AMcHarg · Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 10:43 pm Post subject:

I completely agree with Angus with regard to the use of online coaching and have suggested similar before. I think it's crazy that in the age of such technology we do not make greater use of it (or in many cases any use of it). It removes the money and logistical barriers completely.

This doesn't mean that there can't be teaching sessions of an OTB nature but online coaching could be done more frequently due to it being much cheaper/easier and the results of coaching on a frequent basis would be profound.